[mrganondorf]

Not sure if there is much to see here..

Praised by fans and critics worldwide, R. Scott Bakker has become one of the most celebrated voices in fantasy literature. With The Great Ordeal, Bakker presents the long-anticipated third volume of The Aspect-Emperor, a series that stands with the finest in the genre for its grandiose scope, rich detail, and thrilling story. 

As Fanim war-drums beat just outside the city, the Empress Anasurimbor Esmenet searches frantically throughout the palace for her missing son Kelmomas. Meanwhile and many miles away, Esmenet’s husband’s Great Ordeal continues its epic march further north. But in light of dwindling supplies, the Aspect-Emperor’s decision to allow his men to consume the flesh of fallen Sranc could have consequences even He couldn’t have foreseen. And, deep in Ishuäl, the wizard Achamian grapples with his fear that his unspeakably long journey might be ending in emptiness, no closer to the truth than when he set out. 

The Aspect-Emperor series follows Bakker’s Prince of Nothing saga, returning to the same world twenty years later. The Great Ordeal follows The Judging Eye and The White-Luck Warrior, and delivers the first half of the conclusion to this epic story. Returning to Bakker’s richly imagined universe of myth, violence, and sorcery, The Aspect-Emperor continues to set the bar for the fantasy genre, reaching new heights of intricacy and meaning.

- What do you bet Esmi witdraws all of her forces from the Scylvendi frontier and lets the shrieking mob run straight into the approaching Fanim.  That would be very Kellhus of her.

- Maybe Kelmomas goes on being missing?  I hadn't thought of that.  Esmi is unwilling or unable to send troops into the Shadow Palace?  I know she doesn't want to give it's secret away, but I assume she would want Kelmomas back even more. 

It could be that Kellhus has told her that it is a life and death issue that the Shadow Palace remain a secret?  Or maybe she needs to make use of it in order to hold the empire together, so she can't risk secret getting out.  I bet Theli could find him, but I'm not sure that she is willing.

- Consequences of eating sranc that Kellhus hasn't forseen?  Please.  He's probably had outposts of dudes eating sranc for years to see what happens.  And yet...I am still worried that the Consult will use the Great Ordeal's new food source to deliver poison or plague.  What do you bet we get some humor about the men cooking sranc in different ways?  On the menu tonight: Sranc stuffed with sranc.  Cooked sranc.  Uncooked sranc.  Sorcerer cooked sranc (market price).  Cooked sranc with salted sorcerer (limited availability).

What do you think?

[Bolivar]

I assumed she would be taken prisoner right away but I guess she makes it out of the final scene. Wondering if there's some chapters just the two of them in hiding while Kelmomas hunts down Fanim and she (we) finds out what he really is.

So confirmed something's about to start happening with the Sranc eating. Hopefully it's going to be unpredictable.

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[locke]

And ishual is empty

[H]

You guys missed the most subtle and clearly then the most important revelation in this blub.  They capitalize He when referring to Kellhus.  This means he will ascend to God-hood and so TSTSNBN is going to be titled God-Emperor of Eärwa.

[mrganondorf]

You guys missed the most subtle and clearly then the most important revelation in this blub.  They capitalize He when referring to Kellhus.  This means he will ascend to God-hood and so TSTSNBN is going to be titled God-Emperor of Eärwa.

that is interesting ... hm ... Kellhus is God and has not forseen something.  if there is something unexpected about eating sranc meat, it won't be that it makes you lusty like sranc or that it has similar effects as qirri.  Kellhus must have tested eating sranc on soldiers before now. 

but i guess it could be something like Mog returns and is able to control the Great Ordeal because of the sranc within.  i can't remember who, but someone else suggested that it might freak out the nonmen when they see men eating things with nonmen faces.  maybe Kellhus underestimates the effect it will have on himself or Kayutas as in dunyain + sranc =

hell Kellhus may even be able to use Mandate knowledge--there could have been a force during the First Apocalypse that was forced to eat sranc.  maybe that's what happened in Cil-Aujus.  the mansion is surrounded, so no supplies, they eat sranc and are then able to repel the No-God?  or maybe Mog just withdraws at that point to let the sranc-tainted men and nonmen tear each other apart

next time Kellhus warps back to Momen, he should bring some raw sranc thigh for little Kelmomas!

one last possibility--the Consult lets the Great Ordeal eat sranc until the GO is deep into the wastes of Agongorea, then the Consult has the sranc withdraw entirely and it's like crossing the Carathay all over again.  could be that the GO is too reliant on sranc meat AND sranc blood for water at that point.

[H]

Well, it seems highly improbable to me that the No-God actually returns.  I don't think the Consult was ready to bring him back now, which is why they've been fumbling and bumbling about this whole time.  If the No-God was primed and ready, why not bring him back sooner?  Sure, it could be a trap, but I'm still not really buying a surprise No-God.

Note though that it doesn't say, "the flesh of fallen Sranc has consequences even He couldn’t have foresee" it says "the flesh of fallen Sranc could have consequences even He couldn’t have foreseen" implying that there is something looming and possibly happening, not something actually happening (at least in this part).

[mrganondorf]

yeah, i bet the Consult are like stuck at 99.9% Mog completion, but the missing piece may be headed their way could be:

- a dunyain
- an anasurimbor
- seswatha's heart
- Mim's kid
- Akka
- more chorae
- massive sacrifice
- waiting for paint on carapace to dry

possibly they have Mog built but not turned on and they are waiting for the fulfillment of a long mission to recover the heron spear?  don't know why that would take so long.  maybe it's in some kind of crazy deep vault in Ishterebinth, so Ishterebinth had to fall and then they had to hammer away at it for a while.  maybe they need Mims or Ak47 to touch it, so they are manipulating them into Ishual?

[H]

I think the recipe involves someone like Nau-Cayûti, although what about him is that special we don't know, but we'd guess that Kellhus.  I think the other part is probably a massive sacrifice.

So, in this, the Great Ordeal is probably perfect.  The question is, does Kellhus realize this?  How good is the Consult trap going to be?

[Bolivar]

I think the other part is probably a massive sacrifice.

So, in this, the Great Ordeal is probably perfect.  The question is, does Kellhus realize this?  How good is the Consult trap going to be?

I'm dreading that he realizes it and he's even engineered the Great Ordeal for this exact purpose.

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[profgrape]

I think the other part is probably a massive sacrifice.

So, in this, the Great Ordeal is probably perfect.  The question is, does Kellhus realize this?  How good is the Consult trap going to be?

I'm dreading that he realizes it and he's even engineered the Great Ordeal for this exact purpose.

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You'd think that by now, Kellhus has a pretty good idea of how the Consult raised the No-God in the first place.  In fact, he might have come to understand it before he confronts Moenghus.  When Kellhus thinks about what Moenghus will do when he learns of his damnation, the "counterfeit war against Golgatterath", etc, maybe that's all in service of bringing back the NG?

[mrganondorf]

I think the recipe involves someone like Nau-Cayûti, although what about him is that special we don't know, but we'd guess that Kellhus.  I think the other part is probably a massive sacrifice.

So, in this, the Great Ordeal is probably perfect.  The question is, does Kellhus realize this?  How good is the Consult trap going to be?

it's tricky for the Consult--i gather that they only partly control the hoard, as far as the Consult knows, the Great Ordeal could just fail without making it to the sacrificial alter

------

the real reason the Consult has unleashed the No-God onto the world? ... because they're not done building the 7th one--multiple Mogs lay waste to all!!!

and on that note, perhaps when we see Mog, he won't look like he did before.  perhaps it will have a bigger Heron Spear-proof carapace, or a smaller one, or more chorae, or cool racing stripes, maybe a sticker on the back "my child is honor student at General Abominations Junior High"

[Odium]

Reading the brief discussion thus far has also engendered in me, like Bolivar, the idea that maybe Kellhus is riding the Great Ordeal into Golgotterath because he wants to become the No-God's next vessel. I feel like I remember seeing it somewhere, but didn't someone point out that the dreams involving the true end of Nau-Cayuti take place shortly before Mog's birthday?

[Madness]

Welcome to the Second Apocalypse, Odium.

I'd imagine it was lockesnow (or locke here, for I refer indiscriminately to the two) and his comment lies in this thread.

[mrganondorf]

Reading the brief discussion thus far has also engendered in me, like Bolivar, the idea that maybe Kellhus is riding the Great Ordeal into Golgotterath because he wants to become the No-God's next vessel. I feel like I remember seeing it somewhere, but didn't someone point out that the dreams involving the true end of Nau-Cayuti take place shortly before Mog's birthday?

hi Odium!  welcome!  i wonder if it could go the other way--Mog will be Kellhus' new vessel?  if they end up blending, i wonder who will be 'in the driver's seat'?