I've noticed your off-quotations, Madness. There is no "beyond good and evil" namedrop when Kellhus and Proyas confer after Dagliash. The line in the ARC is also "I'm training warlords to conquer Golgotterath" not "to die upon wicked heights" or what-have-you. Both the early renditions of those lines would've been way too on the nose, not that isn't Bakker's forte sometimes.
You've rightfully admonished me. Though, the things it's teaching me about the writing process - super exciting. I can't wait to compare the draft to the ARC or the canon artifact line for line.
Going to articulate a very strange thought, one which I will have to parse by rereading the two Dagliash chapters. I think Aurang wanted the Horde to be destroyed. As soon as the Sranc became regarded for their utility as food, it would be far more beneficial to destroy them. As long as the Horde is continuously shadowing the Ordeal, they have an unlimited food supply. As Kascamandri made a shield of the Carathay many years ago by crippling the logistics/supplies of the Holy War, Aurang would make a shield of the Field Appalling. Not sure if Sranc meat can keep, or if can still provide sustenance after being rotten, but even still—the Ordeal no longer have vast moving hordes of Sranc-cattle, they have to carry their own Meat, as it were.
Not that strange
.
I also think that secreting Weapon-races under Daglish/in Viri was not to ambush whoever took Dagliash but to lure them into thinking that the Consult was going to try and engage in somewhat symmetrical warfare. The deception was pretending that they were even trying—Aurang intentionally threw the battle. The Tekne-nuke was just a sideshow, the ace in the hole was destroying the Great Ordeal's food supply. Agongorea will do the rest.
Edit: I think Kellhus may have anticipated some of this, which is why I concur with others that he is preparing Proyas for the Cannibal Ordeal. "Something must be eaten..."
There seems to be a consensus on the vastness of Agongorea that I hadn't perceived. It should just an entire plain of shattered glass, right?
Just don't eat the Leper Ordeal, Proyas...
Yeah, I think the Consult certainly wouldn't have minded dropping most of the sorcerers down the Well too, while they were at it, but indeed, they probably saw the necessity in exterminating the Sranc too.
Not that they ever really value Sranc lives (crunch all you want, we'll make more).
I've seen you invoke the "Well" a couple times now. I'm fairly sure the trick there is fairly mundane on the part of Shaeonanra and the Inchoroi (as I won't refer to him as Aurang because the appellation didn't occur until the Apocalypse
). The Viritic Well is a giant hole with a "carpet" over it in the False Sun. There's no "echo of the ground" for Titirga to balance himself on when he falls through and then Shaeonanra and the Inchoroi bring Nogaral down the Well for good measure.
But who gets to eat who? Sorcerers get to stay fat, the Ordeal will slowly starve, the wounded will be eaten. Gross.
Just don't eat the Leper Ordeal.
then we find out that the other head is already in play!!!
I have a suspicion it was done before. Lord Kosoter.
Ooo. Nice.
Lol - we've definitely had two separate threads kicking around regarding this on the forum
.
The Trap at Dagliash:
...
Second Battle of the Horde: Consult - 1, Ordeal - 0.
Shouldnt that be C -1, O - 1 now? Its a tie game.
Never said I was good at keeping score
. Though, as of TGO, Consult - 2, Ordeal - 1.
Forgive that long-winded summary but it bears the crux of the matter. Given all that, the Consult either do or don't know that the Metagnosis is powerful enough to excavate Nogaral from the Viritic Well in which they buried Titirga...
Probably, since the Consult were willing to destroy the Horde with the Tekne-Nuke, they simply meant to take out as many of the Ordeal as possible. It's possible they knew which School Kellhus would bring to Dagliash but I doubt it. It's just another part of the Consult's strategy - to this point - which is take as many of the Ordeal out, bonus points for sorcerers, before the Ordeal reaches a place where the Consult must actually engage.
The Nuke is referred to as only 'the golden coffer'. I really didnt like that notation. Seemed really forced.
Which, to me, seemed to rise on its own accord, undamaged and touched by Kellhus until he sees it directly and takes control of it.
FYI, a Nuke would do far, far, more damage bursting way up in the air rather than down a well. Deep enough, and only an earthquake would have been noticed. Not at all the Consults goal. They needed it to raise from the Well.
It's my opinion that the Bashrag and the Chorae where entirely a sacrifice to the Nuke, not to mention the legions and legions of Ur-Sranc that were roasted before Kellhus even set foot onto Dagliash.
Again - allowing for reconciliation between draft/ARC/canon artifact: the question for me is one of when? Because, as far as my read, it seems like it's more organic that the "golden coffer" is part of the Nogaral's debris that Kellhus is raising out of the Well to stuff all the "rotted ground" beneath Dagliash.
So is the "golden coffer" carried into the Mansion when the Consult send the Legions in or has the "golden coffer" been there since the False Sun?
Raises a new question, where's the damned Diurnal?
Also:
"What is it?" ... - Saubon
Three Heartbeats passed.
An Inchoroi Object. A Tekne artifact. - Kellhus
The Writing that glowers upon it ... What does it say? - S
That not everyone can be saved - K
What do you say? - S
The leonine profile lowered in contemplation, his gaze wet and rigid. .. His Savior turned to him, smiled what might have counted as an apology had they played number-sticks. "That this is a good thing" - K
Paraphrased.
Kellhus knows its going to kill a bunch of people, and he's fine with that. This read to me as trading a piece of the Ordeal for most of the Consult's horde - which Kellhus thinks is a fine trade. Might be the Meat talking, but I think Kellhus feels a bit bad that so many must die like this.
You have to feed an army. Smaller armies need less food. Wins all around.
Plus meatshield, meta-meatshield.
The Leper Ordeal:
In my read, it seems like Proyas and Hoga Gothyelk's son (don't have the draft on me to name check, is it Hogrim?) are arguing that the Leper Ordeal must continue to participate in the assault on Golgotterath,
"In my read" - meaning specifically that they said this? No such conversation audibly takes place.
Yeah, no, there was no dialogue. "In my read" referring only to the clear differences between the draft and ARC as mentioned across a number of my recent posts. But my sense of that passage suggests that the Leper Ordeal would have been happier to just lay there and die.
Also, is it even called the Leper Ordeal in the ARC?
Vaka simply comes to the conclusion that he will continue to war against the Consult regardless what the Leper Ordeal decides and so leads that truly heartbreaking vigil across the dead Sranc to Agongorea.
Heartbreaking, aye. Much of that in this book. It's great that they all just decide to follow without understanding. Moving for the sake of moving.
Onward to the horrible release of death.
Proyas/Saubon:
"training warlords to die on wicked heights."
Beyond Good and Evil when talking with Proyas after the battle...
No such quotes
Indeed, HP mentioned above.
Kellhus seducing Proyas - for me anyways - mirrors Moenghus' seduction of Cnaiur. The love between a man and a man is anathema to the Galeoth, the Scylvendi, and the juxtaposition that the Dunyain create in the objects of their seduction results in a cognitive dissonance so extreme, at least in Cnaiur's case, that it enables/breaks Cnaiur to be capable of... well, anything.
Kellhus needs Proyas to be unconstrained.
Wow, that's a nice parallel I can't believe I missed. Fully agree.
Proyas the Unconstrained.
Even as I was rereading the new Ch. 1 excerpt, you might have substituted many of Cnaiur's mid-late TWP passages for Proyas's now. Wants to ride beyond all the madness. If only he could be alone with his thoughts.
I wonder if Proyas ever thinks back to that moment when he arrived at the beaches of Momemn and just wishes he'd fell off the launch, then and there, drowning in knee deep water .
Oh man, I can see that too. "If only I had drown that day". Dying a few cubits from his future savior turned demon.
Lol - he might have even merited consideration by the Gods then.
I was so excited when Aurang came in. Even more excited when Saccarees waded out to meet him.
Than I was disappointed, 
But I am pretty sure Aurang was just baiting the trap further, even though, I still think that bomb was supposed to stay in the Well, not be raised above it.
Haha, yes, what an extreme let down. But what a great line just before the Nuke. "The days are new Chigra ... And far shorter than the old"
As far as the series and TAE have gone so far I'm glad that he's saved the Consult until TUC-proper.
I've noticed your off-quotations, Madness.
The Dolour takes him.
Long ago.
