[profgrape]

Ditto, fantastic work, Wert!

[Madness]

Sent you a PM, Wert, since you're likely not used to paying attention to our system. As noted, please feel free to disregard anything I offered .

And yes, you've done an incredible job. I think even the hardcores, maybe even especially the hardcores, will appreciate your document - though, obviously, it is invaluable for the casual reader hoping to catch up before TUC.

[Werthead]

Done a final (final?) update with Madness's feedback and some other feedback incorporated. I swapped out the front image, because it was suggested that Kellhus isn't the be-all and end-all of Earwa. Also it meant I could use that image rather than Jason's earlier (and less detailed) one for the Unification Wars chapter.

[Madness]

Nice .

I'm going to re-read it it without the Judging Eye while I'm on the bus back home.

Thanks again for your efforts, Wert.

[Werthead]

I suddenly realised I left out a rather important map (the one of the Holy War) from the PDF, so I went back and re-added it. I also added the List of Cants to the glossary, as that seemed like a good match for it (in the sorcerous schools section). Updated version in the original link.

And yes, I will update it again to account for the events of TUC (although that won't be needed until TSTCBN is due, so probably a couple of years away).

[Madness]

Good stuff, Wert .

[ThoughtsOfThelli]

This is some impressive work, and it came in quite handy as a more detailed "What Has Come Before" that doesn't take as long as a proper reread. (as I don't have the time to do one before reading TUC, it helped me remember some things that weren't as fresh in myy mind anymore)


Just one question, though, are you getting some of the dates for events and birth/death years directly from the TUC appendices? Because I don't recall, for instance, ever being given exact birth years for Achamian, Esmenet, Kellhus, and most of the Anasûrimbor children. Sorry if I'm being nitpicky, but I have an interest in timelines, and figuring out everyone's ages is kind of an obsessive thing of mine. I remember Achamian, Cnaïur, Esmenet, Serwë, etc. had their ages stated in the appendices for the first series, but it did span a few years (4109-4112, right?) so that wasn't exact.

[Werthead]

This is some impressive work, and it came in quite handy as a more detailed "What Has Come Before" that doesn't take as long as a proper reread. (as I don't have the time to do one before reading TUC, it helped me remember some things that weren't as fresh in myy mind anymore)


Just one question, though, are you getting some of the dates for events and birth/death years directly from the TUC appendices? Because I don't recall, for instance, ever being given exact birth years for Achamian, Esmenet, Kellhus, and most of the Anasûrimbor children. Sorry if I'm being nitpicky, but I have an interest in timelines, and figuring out everyone's ages is kind of an obsessive thing of mine. I remember Achamian, Cnaïur, Esmenet, Serwë, etc. had their ages stated in the appendices for the first series, but it did span a few years (4109-4112, right?) so that wasn't exact.

I went with the best guesses from the Wiki, most of them based on logical extrapolation (i.e. Theliopa being born during Kellhus and Esmenet's sojourn in Nenciphon). When you realise Serwa is only 17 (at best) in TAE, it's a bit of a jarring moment

[Hiro]

This is some impressive work, and it came in quite handy as a more detailed "What Has Come Before" that doesn't take as long as a proper reread. (as I don't have the time to do one before reading TUC, it helped me remember some things that weren't as fresh in myy mind anymore)


Just one question, though, are you getting some of the dates for events and birth/death years directly from the TUC appendices? Because I don't recall, for instance, ever being given exact birth years for Achamian, Esmenet, Kellhus, and most of the Anasûrimbor children. Sorry if I'm being nitpicky, but I have an interest in timelines, and figuring out everyone's ages is kind of an obsessive thing of mine. I remember Achamian, Cnaïur, Esmenet, Serwë, etc. had their ages stated in the appendices for the first series, but it did span a few years (4109-4112, right?) so that wasn't exact.

I went with the best guesses from the Wiki, most of them based on logical extrapolation (i.e. Theliopa being born during Kellhus and Esmenet's sojourn in Nenciphon). When you realise Serwa is only 17 (at best) in TAE, it's a bit of a jarring moment

True, however 17 in ancient times was different than it is now.

[ThoughtsOfThelli]

I went with the best guesses from the Wiki, most of them based on logical extrapolation (i.e. Theliopa being born during Kellhus and Esmenet's sojourn in Nenciphon). When you realise Serwa is only 17 (at best) in TAE, it's a bit of a jarring moment

I see, I wondered if it was the wiki or the appendices.
Do you know that Serwa and the rest might be even younger? I was going to make a thread about the younger generation's birth years at one point after I first joined the forum, so I looked up age references for them at the time. Moënghus II and Kayûtas we have definite birth years for, but Theliopa is referred to as being 16 during TJE (can't remember exactly where, but it's early in the book). Even if she was still turning 17 later in the year, that would still give her a birth year of 4115 at the earliest, and by extension Serwa would have been born in 4116 or 4117 and would be 15-16 during TAE!

True, however 17 in ancient times was different than it is now.

Yes, that's true, I suppose, and we can't judge half-Dûnyain teenagers by the same standard we would judge regular human ones either. Still, it's impressive how powerful Serwa is at such a young age.

[Werthead]

If Theliopa was supposed to be 16 in TJE, that's clearly gone out the window in TUC: she was born when Kellhus and Esment were sojourning in the White-Sun Palace in Nenciphon, which was in 4113. So she's 19 at the start of TJE and Serwa would logically be 1-2 years younger than her.

Bakker does have form for this kind of retcon. The Swayal Compact's HQ moves from being in Iothiah in TJE to the ruined mansion of Illisseru in TUC as well.

[ThoughtsOfThelli]

If Theliopa was supposed to be 16 in TJE, that's clearly gone out the window in TUC: she was born when Kellhus and Esment were sojourning in the White-Sun Palace in Nenciphon, which was in 4113. So she's 19 at the start of TJE and Serwa would logically be 1-2 years younger than her.

Bakker does have form for this kind of retcon. The Swayal Compact's HQ moves from being in Iothiah in TJE to the ruined mansion of Illisseru in TUC as well.

I kind of figured the 16(or 17)-year-old- Theliopa would be changed later on, even without access to that information from TUC, it does make more sense for the story to have her (and by extension Serwa and also Inrilatas) be older. Especially when you consider Serwa's level of power and Inrilatas' description as someone who clearly has to be a few years past the start of puberty (given that the nameless deformed child was born between Serwa and Inrilatas, having a 4116 or 4117 birth year for Serwa would result in a 4118 or 4119 birth year for Inrilatas to account for that, and Inrilatas does not look like he's only 13-14). Sometimes, a retcon really is needed.


EDIT, July 9: Because I couldn't math properly when writing this post last night - for some reason I kept thinking the current Eärwa year was 4130.

[Wilshire]

Bakker retcons all the time. Whole cities has moved . The world and the pieces that move within it are all very fluid, which is a source of minor frustration for me.

[ThoughtsOfThelli]

Bakker retcons all the time. Whole cities has moved . The world and the pieces that move within it are all very fluid, which is a source of minor frustration for me.

I think I just haven't noticed the retcons of the geographic sort because that doesn't tend to hold my interest as much.

[Wilshire]

Don't look to closely! Keep things vaguely out of focus, things flow better that way.