[ThoughtsOfThelli]

Cimoira is often forgotten, which is kind of funny considering she was actually in the books, unlike Sanna-Jephera.

It's almost as if she wasn't interesting because she wasn't an Anasûrimbor...
I, for one, do think she's an intriguing character, would add her to my still-hypothetical "Top 20 TSA Female Characters I Wish We Knew More About".

It is interesting given that line from TDTCB - "The strong seed forces the womb" - which I interpret as some kind legitimate statement about genetics rather than an old wives tale. I would suspect that the hybrid child with a male father would look like the father, though obviously this isn't the case.

So ignoring that, if we look at this one known case, we can see that the Mother influenced had a primary influence on the hybrid appearance, then maybe with Sanna-Jephera its more likely that he looked like his Halaroi mother. That, and some greater influence of the Nonman blood, might make what we'd consider to look like a typical human.

There it is again, "the seed is strong" idea (to borrow a phrase from A Song of Ice and Fire). I myself do not disagree with that, but is it just an opinion characters have in-story or do most people in Eärwa do actually resemble their fathers? (That would be a good thread for another time...) The issue is a bit muddled in that, in most cases where X is said to resemble their father, Y, we don't even know how the mother looked like.
After my speculation in my previous post of what the ramifications of a Cûnuroi-looking Sanna-Jephera would be, I think I agree with you and it is far more likely that he looked more like a Halaroi.
I wonder if he would have some sort of "strangeness" about him that would mark him as not fully human, same for Cimoira but with the species reversed.
Difficult to say if any hybrid that happened to survive past birth would tend to look more like their mother's species, given we just have two examples (and we only know what one of them looked like).

Aside, I would imagine a few centuries of not having women around might break down the taboo against congress with non-nonmen. That, and you can always find people with different preferences in a given population, so I assume the nonmen were no different. That it was a King seems strange, but the wealthy and powerful are accustomed to breaking societal norms, getting what they want when they want, and generally enjoy a kind of social impunity that an average person might not enjoy.

I absolutely agree, I felt it was necessary to point out that it did happen, as someone who doesn't remember this TJE passage and just remembers what Bakker said on the matter might have a different opinion.
And just look at the sentence following the part I posted before:

In this version, the Nonmen of Cil-Aujas had rejoiced, thinking that the resulting child, if female, could herald the resurrection of their dying race-only to discover that the infant boy was wholly human.

There was definitely an element of desperation there too...though even if a hybrid female child had been born, I doubt they'd have been able to overcome the massive genetic bottleneck that would follow (even with some more female hybrids).
Given what we were just discussing above, it's interesting to note that in this case they could tell that the baby was fully human right at birth. However, this was probably because Nostol was Norsirai and Weyukat was Emwama, so their child might have looked very obviously Norsirai.

[BeardFisher-King]

I would interpret "the strong seed forces the womb" as a statement concerning the potency of the male seed, its aptness for quickening, rather than the ability to carry genetic traits.

[ThoughtsOfThelli]

I would interpret "the strong seed forces the womb" as a statement concerning the potency of the male seed, its aptness for quickening, rather than the ability to carry genetic traits.

That's a good interpretation, BFK, I always thought it was something more along the lines of "the seed is strong" (like I said above) but you might be right. It would make more sense...

[Wilshire]

do most people in Eärwa do actually resemble their fathers?

I doubt tthere's enough cannon information to answer that question.
We have the fact that Kellhus' children look like him, I think, which is strange considering what would be a host of recessive traits IRL (Blond hair, blue eyes, etc.).
We also have the Scylvendi legends of women being killed for having blond haired children, which again is strange given what I assume is their typical genetic heritage - you wouldn't assume that blonde hair would show up at all.

Can't think of much else - not a lot of evidence really.

I wonder if he would have some sort of "strangeness" about him that would mark him as not fully human, same for Cimoira but with the species reversed.

Probably. Humans are spectacular at pattern recognition. Seems very likely that though he might otherwise be normal looking, or even beautiful given the Nonmen general physique, I'm sure people would see an 'otherness' in his appearance. This could be a turn on, rather than a turn off, though - making people drawn to him rather than the reverse.

Difficult to say if any hybrid that happened to survive past birth would tend to look more like their mother's species, given we just have two examples (and we only know what one of them looked like).

Insufficient data

I absolutely agree, I felt it was necessary to point out that it did happen, as someone who doesn't remember this TJE passage and just remembers what Bakker said on the matter might have a different opinion.

Besides, what does Bakker even know .

[ThoughtsOfThelli]

I doubt tthere's enough cannon information to answer that question.
We have the fact that Kellhus' children look like him, I think, which is strange considering what would be a host of recessive traits IRL (Blond hair, blue eyes, etc.).
We also have the Scylvendi legends of women being killed for having blond haired children, which again is strange given what I assume is their typical genetic heritage - you wouldn't assume that blonde hair would show up at all.

Can't think of much else - not a lot of evidence really.

I don't even know we should count the children of Dûnyain fathers for that, because they seem to have their own specific super-dominant genetics at work. I would assume that the children of a non-Dûnyain Norsirai man and a Ketyai woman would not look like the children of Kellhus and Esmenet, for the most part. Sure, there would be a slightly possibility of blond hair and/or blue eyes appearing in one or two of the children, depending on what recessives the mother might have (just look at green-eyed Mimara, for instance). Aside from that, I have a hard time believing children of mixed Norsirai/Ketyai ethnicity wouldn't be mostly black-haired, brown-eyed and dark-skinned (though lighter-skinned than full-blooded Ketyai people).
That was just the case of Cnaiür's mother, if I remember correctly...were there others? You are right in that it would be strange that blond hair would appear at all among the apparently highly homogenous (from a genetic standpoint) black-haired Scylvendi population. But there is - once again - the involvement of Dûnyain genetics in this case, so we can't conclude anything from that. (Dûnyain could probably have children with Satyothi women that would come out blond, blue-eyed and pale-skinned, as completely genetically implausible as that sounds.)
Scylvendi do tend to capture Norsirai women from time to time, right? So I think there could be some genes for blond hair around, but definitely not widespread (this is probably the case with Anissi, for instance). We do know of a(nother) person of mixed Scylvendi/Norsirai ethnicity (Moënghus II) that strongly favours the Scylvendi side (but again, one case, can't conclude anything).
One of these days I have to make a thread listing the appearances of all available characters compared to their parents (Dûnyain and part-Dûnyain excluded) to see if there really is anything there.

Probably. Humans are spectacular at pattern recognition. Seems very likely that though he might otherwise be normal looking, or even beautiful given the Nonmen general physique, I'm sure people would see an 'otherness' in his appearance. This could be a turn on, rather than a turn off, though - making people drawn to him rather than the reverse.

I can see that being the case, Sanna-Jephera having a kind of strange beauty, with more chiseled features than regular humans and the like. Maybe he would have paler skin than the average Norsirai, too.
Cimoira, on the other hand, might have had slightly softer and more rounded features than the average Cûnuroi (but not too noticeable), maybe slightly larger eyes too.
(And this just gets me thinking that we need fanart of these two...)

Insufficient data

Exactly.

Besides, what does Bakker even know .

Now, now, Wilshire, I'm not saying anything against Bakker by any means. What he said in that AMA seemed to be the general rule among Nonmen anyway, Gin'yursis seemed to be in the minority there (assuming, of course, that part of the legends is true).

[Wilshire]

My Bakker comment was largely serious. His remarks post-text are nearly always confusing, rarely enlightening, and tend to be in general (or specific) conflict with what he actually wrote lol.

Regarding Scylvendi, I forgot that the progeny we saw was Moenghus'. Still, the tradition was there - killing the mother and child if the child is born with blond hair - so there seems to be something to that. No telling how uncommon it was... Maybe the Norsari fair skinned/eyed traits are just dominant in Earwa. That's just as likely as anything else - no reason why  blond/blue has to be recessive.

[MSJ]

My Bakker comment was largely serious. His remarks post-text are nearly always confusing, rarely enlightening, and tend to be in general (or specific) conflict with what he actually wrote lol.

Which is why they should largely be ignored. I think he definitely is honest on some subjects, but when you get to plot and mysteries of the series, he is Ajokli. Take for example, the question on who the man who Kellhus speaks to in his dreams are. Someone wrote Ajokli. Bakker says, "That's a close assumption.", or something close enough, don't take that verbatim. My point is, everybody says Bakker portrays his self as Kellhus, I'd say he's more a Ajokli. When it comes to plot you get no straightforward answer and if it seems you do, you're more than likely being duped. I don't blame him. I wouldn't give my story away on a Q&A or AMA. It bothers so many people. Just do what I do and don't really worry about. If you wanna believe him, fine. But, don't go crying when Cnaüir shows back up in book 6 and might be a damn God now.

[ThoughtsOfThelli]

My Bakker comment was largely serious. His remarks post-text are nearly always confusing, rarely enlightening, and tend to be in general (or specific) conflict with what he actually wrote lol.

I understand completely, I just feel that I am not in a position to criticize Bakker, being a relative newbie to this fandom/community, unlike you, get what I mean? But I do tend to disregard that specific comment (among others) and stick to what's in the actual books...

Regarding Scylvendi, I forgot that the progeny we saw was Moenghus'. Still, the tradition was there - killing the mother and child if the child is born with blond hair - so there seems to be something to that. No telling how uncommon it was... Maybe the Norsari fair skinned/eyed traits are just dominant in Earwa. That's just as likely as anything else - no reason why  blond/blue has to be recessive.

While Scylvendi men fathering children with Norsirai women (or women with Norsirai ancestry) that might end up being blond was acceptable (though full-Scylvendi children did seem to be better regarded, being more "pure-blooded"), Scylvendi women birthing blond children would almost always mean that an affair with a non-Scylvendi man had taken place, hence the honour killing.
It's not impossible that Norsirai traits are dominant in Eärwa, yes, I might be influenced by real-world genetics here. Not enough examples of mixed-race characters with a Norsirai parent to serve as evidence for or against that hypothesis.