[Lonnie Slidell]

It occurred to me while listening to Scott on this podcast:
http://www.stufftoblowyourmind.com/podcasts/consciousness-and-consult.htm
that Drusas Achamian is (assuming he survived the Second Apocalypse) the most powerful sorcerer left alive on humanity's side in the Three Seas and will be the de facto leader of humanity in the war against the Unholy Consult and the forces of the No-God.  So far leadership has not been his forte.  How do you assess his chances?  Do any of us expect him to rise to the challenge?

[MSJ]

This is the assumption I made in another thread. He is definitely the most powerful sorcerer left alive, unless some Quya are still around.

The Dreams will aid him in leading humanity and finding the key to defeating TNG. And, I don't think it's the Heron Spear either. I think the dream at the end of TTT proves that. Others might not agree, but I think that the Heron Spear had nothing to do with the death of TNG. Here's why. Why would the progenitors create the Carapace and have it be vulnerable to technology they have? No, I think Mimara or maybe Meppa will be key to killing TNG.

But, yes, I think Akka will do just fine rallying humanity. He has a lot on his side. He is the last of the Mandate, who warned humanity for years while being ridiculed. Now, they will seek the sage advice of a Mandate sorcerer. And, I expect his dreams to be integral in the survival of humanity.

[TaoHorror]

Well, since I'm wrong just about everything - it won't be what I think, which is the only chance they ( humanity ) have is to come together to fight TNG ( Svylvendi, any/all remaining Sorcerers, Zeum, religious leaders, et al ). Knowing Bakker, he'll have Akka hunted, blamed for the failure of TGO ( maybe given his public rejection of Kelhus ) and humanity will fall into civil war before any kind of resistance/plan is cooked up. And when/if there is another "Ordeal" to take TNG on, there will still be power plays, betrayals, deception among the players involved with some fucked up god hunting the leader, etc.

[Sausuna]

Here's why. Why would the progenitors create the Carapace and have it be vulnerable to technology they have?

Possibly because the risk to the Carapace was lower when Ark worked properly (might never leave orbit during exterminations). They might have developed the weapons of light prior to conceiving the No-God and thought it best to send their best weaponry along as well. After all, soggomant is thought impenetrable by man, but a weapon of light may do so. Had Kellhus defeated the Consult, they might have been able to cut apart Ark like a roast turkey at Thanksgiving. Why give the only weapons that could hurt their space ship as well?

[TLEILAXU]

I think he has good chances of rallying some survivors to weather the incoming mass genocide and eventually repopulate the world after it has been shut.

[Sausuna]

I think he has good chances of rallying some survivors to weather the incoming mass genocide and eventually repopulate the world after it has been shut.

Well, that's assuming people can have children after the world is shut. I'm not sure if there is anything commenting on the matter, but it wouldn't surprise me if shutting it would prevent that.

[Redeagl]

Good thread. I approve.

[TaoHorror]

I think he has good chances of rallying some survivors to weather the incoming mass genocide and eventually repopulate the world after it has been shut.

Well, that's assuming people can have children after the world is shut. I'm not sure if there is anything commenting on the matter, but it wouldn't surprise me if shutting it would prevent that.

Well, if dispatching TNG doesn't revitalize fertility, then it is OVER already. That one effect alone dooms humanity same as the non-men. Doesn't make sense to me - kinda makes the 144,000 ceiling odd given it'll come to that naturally if there is no way humans can propagate; TNG could just wait it out.

[Sausuna]

I think he has good chances of rallying some survivors to weather the incoming mass genocide and eventually repopulate the world after it has been shut.

Well, that's assuming people can have children after the world is shut. I'm not sure if there is anything commenting on the matter, but it wouldn't surprise me if shutting it would prevent that.

Well, if dispatching TNG doesn't revitalize fertility, then it is OVER already. That one effect alone dooms humanity same as the non-men. Doesn't make sense to me - kinda makes the 144,000 ceiling odd given it'll come to that naturally if there is no way humans can propagate; TNG could just wait it out.

I mean, the No-God's continued existence doesn't seem necessary to keeping the world shut, since we know the No-God seemingly can only exist for so long from what Bakker said (he made a comment on it once, if I remember correctly, that the No-God had a time limit of sorts). I'm not saying killing the No-God wouldn't restore child birth, that's assumedly been the case before. But I mean if it manages to succeeded shutting the world.

[TLEILAXU]

Why would the world being shut stop people from having children?

[H]

Why would the world being shut stop people from having children?

Plausibly, no souls out means no souls in.

[Sausuna]

Why would the world being shut stop people from having children?

I'd note again that I'm merely speculating.
But from what I recall (as with everything, I'd have to double check) that the end of TUC referenced the 'cycle of souls'. Then one could take the idea of daimotic metaphysics, that all souls occupy one place, seemingly related to The Outside or linked/related to it. And in Cants of Calling that sleeping people have a connection to the Outside.

My point being, I'm of the mindset that interfering with how souls leave the world may very well interfere with how they enter it.

[TLEILAXU]

Why would the world being shut stop people from having children?

Plausibly, no souls out means no souls in.

Why would the world being shut stop people from having children?

I'd note again that I'm merely speculating.
But from what I recall (as with everything, I'd have to double check) that the end of TUC referenced the 'cycle of souls'. Then one could take the idea of daimotic metaphysics, that all souls occupy one place, seemingly related to The Outside or linked/related to it. And in Cants of Calling that sleeping people have a connection to the Outside.

My point being, I'm of the mindset that interfering with how souls leave the world may very well interfere with how they enter it.

But you don't need souls anymore after the world of shut. They're a part of Eärwan metaphysics. After the Outside has been shut you arrive in a world like our world.

[H]

But you don't need souls anymore after the world of shut. They're a part of Eärwan metaphysics. After the Outside has been shut you arrive in a world like our world.

Plausible, but we don't know what happens once the world is closed.

Sure, souls aren't needed, but the birth of souled being might be contingent upon the Cycle of Souls.  So, the No-God stopping the Cycle could be why there were no births during it's presence.  Once the world is shut, we don't know, but if the end result is like the means, it could be that no souled beings will ever be born alive.

[Sausuna]

But you don't need souls anymore after the world of shut. They're a part of Eärwan metaphysics. After the Outside has been shut you arrive in a world like our world.

As H says, that's possible. But it seems unlikely to me.

Can living beings exist without souls? Sure, we have skin-spies and scranc, for instance. Can men be born without souls? I've seen no evidence of that so far. Seemingly all men have been born with souls and can even live without a proper body (the Amoilas, Shae's strange contraption, somewhat of Malowebi in the Decapitant, and so on). But assuming sealing the world breaks the cycle of souls, it would make more sense to me that men simply cannot make more men, not that birth would continue in a new way. Especially given the effect of the No-God.