[What Came Before]

It was your stream of thought, I just beat you to the punchline.


I always thought that  him being a skeptic was very important. Something along the lines of adulation leaving men blind to reality. The truth always obscured by their own will to see it. Hunters in the thicket.

Though this doesn't make that much sense now, considering that one no longer needs to 'believe' in the existence of the Consult. Whether or not they believe, it is part of reality and everyone now knows it.

Still though, it makes a pretty inversion. The non-believer finding the truth before all the righteous.

[Wilshire]

I guess this was too studded with spoilers to leave in TDTCB threads. Oops .

[What Came Before]

Told ya I'd affect change .

[Triskele]

I had not noticed this on the other board.  Great stuff.


I agree with lockesnow that the changes between the two versions have to be deliberate as they're virtually identical overall. 


I am still baffled about the changing dreams and what they mean even short of this theory like Akka's dream at the end of TTT where the No-God is not struck down and the Sauglish dream at the beginning of WLW where the library opens up to the Whirlwind.   I don't know what it means, but something is clearly happening.

[Wilshire]

Its not so much time dreams themselves but the timing. Thats what Bakker said, but I still don't know what that means.

on a slightly related but mostly tangential point:
I found, also, that the quotes before each chapter have significant meaning about what goes on in the chapter. Like the changing dreams, the quote by itself is not necessarily always important, but when you combine it with what transpires around the quote (the dream), new meanings can be discerned.

[Mac]

I did have a larger post typed out to this today, but my work browser wouldn't show the anti spam thing so I couldn't post it. Anyone know of a way round this?

Anyway, to my original post, or at least what I can remember from it.

I think it was wilshere who alluded to Nau-Cayatu possibly being the no-god, and that Celmomas was perhaps seeing things inversely while dying (setting sun flaring etc). What if his prophecy is similarly affected? What if the return of the anasurimbor is actually the return of Nau-Cayatu as the No-God? This could mean that the resurrection of Mog is inevitable, which may also have implications for the role of Seswatha and his 'burden/worlds end' fate.

I'm just rambling now, and the post I had earlier was better structured, but I lack the patience to spend the time trying to recreate it word for word. Feel free to completely disassemble my inaugural crackpot theory at will due to complete lack of evidence

[Madness]

Apologies, Mac. The five post minimum was one of the initial holdouts against the Spam Sranc before I found the registration task (which bots, apparently, cannot hack yet) - it actually rendered the post minimum obsolete.

The minimum is done away with now. I think we all dislike experiencing posts lost to the abyss. As an aside, I try and cultivate a habit of copying the content of my posts prior to posting on forums.

[Wilshire]

The vision that Celmomas has of the sun, light, twilight, and darkness, is almost like an inversion of reality. The sun is not flaring, the light is fading not rising.

This, combined with how he says 'his son' has seized the sun and is riding through the hearts of all people and his rallying them, fighting for them, this kind of thing. Now, we know that the No-God is felt in the hearts of everyone, but this effect is, again, the opposite.

Perhaps there is some credence to the theory regarding NC = No-God. If you take all Celmomas's descriptions as more or less opposite, then he is basically saying that his son has become the no-sun, is riding against them, and is casing all to feel no-hope.

This is the quote

I think it was wilshere who alluded to Nau-Cayatu possibly being the no-god, and that Celmomas was perhaps seeing things inversely while dying (setting sun flaring etc). What if his prophecy is similarly affected? What if the return of the anasurimbor is actually the return of Nau-Cayatu as the No-God? This could mean that the resurrection of Mog is inevitable, which may also have implications for the role of Seswatha and his 'burden/worlds end' fate.

I suppose its possible that NC isn't dead yet, but I find that hard to believe, unless he is being preserved a la Shae's method. It could be that only his soul can be used and that if/when the No-God walks again, it will be NC's soul re-captured.

[locke]

or he is being preserved as 'seswatha's heart".  Meaning after the NG imploded Seswatha went to the fallen carapace and wrenched the heart from the body inside.  Then he used its connection to all souls (it was cutting them all off right?) in combination with his own sorcery to make NC and himself eternal, haunting the dreams of his followers for all time.

[Wilshire]

How poetic , to save himself within the NG under the guise of  being the worlds last hope.

[locke]

How poetic , to save himself within the NG under the guise of  being the worlds last hope.

And possibly allowing the NG to be resurrected, as in, if he hadn't done it, the NG would be done for good, but alas, my precious, my own, my son, Nau Cayuti, he couldn't do it.

[Wilshire]

Thats what i was getting at

[Francis Buck]

I really like the whole idea of the heart being Nau-Cayuti's and then Seswatha imprinting his own homunculus onto it. It fits very well with the otherwise-quite-difficult-to-reconcile dreams.

I'm definitely a believer in the idea that Seswatha is, essentially, still alive, having made himself immortal through the heart and the dreams, knowing that he must live on (as Shae did) in order to defeat the Consult at a future point. I think the reason for the timeliness of Akka's dreams is because Seswatha knows that he is the one most "well-placed" to do what must be done -- whatever that is -- and thus is intentionally sending the right dreams in the right sequence.

[Wilshire]

Yeah I think it would make sense that Shae and Seswatha are still waging their own war through the millennium. More of a proxy war. The Mangecca where exiled by the Sohonc, which they destroyed with the NG, which seswatha (last scion) resurrected via the Mandate, which is now trying to destroy the consult. Mandate are controlled by Seswatha (Sohonc), Consult controlled by Shae (Mangecca).

[Wilshire]

What if we are supposed to replace Seswatha with Achamian. Akka sees himself in the dreams, perhaps the King is actually speaking to him and not Seswatha. It could be, then, that the fate of the world rests in Achamian's hands rather than Seswatha's. Specifically Akka and not all the others that dream the dreams would be for the same reason Akka sees unique dreams. Which is kind of a non-answer, but its the best I got.