[What Came Before]

Random thought, anyone buy used books? From an authors standpoint, is that any better than pirating?

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I do, however, think Bakker will someday get the attention he deserves. Game of Thrones seems to be making people take a second look at the fantasy genre and, like me, find much of it lacking in depth. Given that Bakker is one of the most talked about authors in the Lit section of Westeros and that he is finally giving in to self-promotion once again (his new website and this forum will be where the magic happens) I think his popularity will be steadily increasing over the coming years.

I truly believe Bakker will be more remembered of all the current crop in the long-run

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I used to be crazy about ASOIAF but now I can't muster a single shit to give about the series. Yes, even the show. Its hardcore fans love spouting how deep and complex the books are but what anyone has to remember is that no matter how hyperbolic the praise for ASOIAF, you gotta add the little "... for a fantasy series" qualifier in your head yourself.

let's face it, asoiaf isn't especially thought-provoking, challenging, or morally complex. it succeeds in turning the reader's expectations on its head, but it's not like there's anything especially philosophically rich or literary trying to be said in the process. I'm not the type of guy who thinks even what you're reading on the shitter has to be capital-A art, but I do think the weirder ASOIAF fans were so starved for something truly challenging and enriching to read that as soon as a series like ASOIAF came along they can't talk about it now without making their O-face. compare the Game of Thrones tv show to something like, say, Breaking Bad or Mad Men. sure, BB and MM are light years apart from a fantasy show in subject matter but the way some of these assholes talk about GoT you'd think it was being directed by James fucking Joyce.

I guess my point is that while Bakker's books definitely have their weird quirks and faults, if it's a sign that the average fantasy novel is gonna start growing up then godspeed.

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I have similar feelings about ASOIAF, bbaztek.

It's this generation's Wheel of Time. Gateway back into fantasy but for something a little meatier one must go somewhere else.

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I make sure I always have a couple used copies of each book to hand out to people interested, Wilshire. I've suggested it to people more than I can remember and far less than 1 in 4 have taken a copy of TDTCB or Disciple.

I've gotten... a couple people to read Neuropath but I always accompany it with a proviso not to include me in their suicide note - one of them happens to be one of the coolest girls I've ever known.

lockesnow, I want to get a plaque made that says Never Be Neil.

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I'd guess that, to answer my own question, pirating a copy for free and buying the book used amounts to the same thing for the author. If you are doing either, you probably cant afford the full price regardless, so either you dont read it at all or you get a cheap/free copy and do read. To the author they see no revenue either way, better a bit of free publicity than none (maybe.)

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I don't believe that authors receive any monetary compensation from used books. I buy them strictly to disseminate - maybe those people continue to purchase the series themselves.

I have bought more than my share of Bakker's titles full price over the years. I always have a full untouched set.

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I have bought more than my share of Bakker's titles full price over the years. I always have a full untouched set.

Same here.  Full hard cover set for the bookshelf, and a couple soft-backs that I use as loaners or for rereads.

[What Came Before]

Random thought, anyone buy used books? From an authors standpoint, is that any better than pirating?

I bought 1st ed HCs in fine/nearfine of all three of the PON trilogy for about $1-2 each, plus shipping.  I originally read them by borrowing from the library.

That's why I'm buying them again on the kindle, cause he should be paid for my enjoyment.

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You could just e-karma direct, lockesnow, if buying the kindle versions are incidental to supporting Bakker.

+1, Garet.

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http://thewertzone.blogspot.com/2012/10/excerpt-from-r-scott-bakkers-unholy.html

Is this true?  Has Bakker returned to teaching part time?

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You could just e-karma direct, lockesnow, if buying the kindle versions are incidental to supporting Bakker.

+1, Garet.

nah, I want them digitally, highlighting function, ability to copy and paste, can check copies on my phone or laptop or kindle.  plus, many orders of magnitude lighter to hold when reading in bed than the dead tree version.

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haha you used the lighter argument. Thats always been my favorite pro-ebook argument.

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haha you used the lighter argument. Thats always been my favorite pro-ebook argument.

[What Came Before]

I had some thoughts over the past couple days and I wanted to share them with those interested.

coobek & Wilshire have inspired me. And I'd like to invite you all to participate in an experiment in social dissemination.

Who are the Dunyain? - The Meme:

I'm something of an academic - it is a, yet unattributed, trait I've inherited at some point in my life, if not innate. I marvel at human interaction above all else, if only because I came from a troubled home, and communication underscores every aspect of that interaction, all extremes.

I think it's important to try for blindingly obvious in these sorts of proposals - considering the basic elements and variables often jogs the imagination in interesting ways.

I have three goals in advocating this project:

Who's involved?

When I first started Second Apocalypse, it was with the open intention to leverage as many social fulcrums as I can to disseminate Bakker. I hit up Wertzone and Fantasy Hotlist with both the advent of the board and the excerpt - Pat announced the Second Apocalypse and they both plugged the excerpt. Bakker plugged both of his own accord.

I'm always interested in the numbers, or nodes, involved and it would be interesting to have some feedback on that.

Neurons & Octopi

Where does our network extend to? I've never attempted a viral campaign before but I've a lifetime of experience with local band promoters & studying social networks. I'm sure there is an untapped wealth of thought here on Second Apocalypse.

Self-reflection becomes important because interaction in perusing the mystery lead people back to these very words. Likewise, this is suggested as an experiment to yield information - I'm curious as to where our growing noosphere extends to and to cultivate tools for better disseminating information in general.

I used tentacles of the Octopus as an example of visual imagery - for someone who stares at brain scans as frequently as I do, another could be the staining of neurons and the nervous system in general. We are the nervous system of this community and a decent sample of Bakker fandom.

Disseminate Bakker

Ultimately, this is a no-lose campaign for anyone who'd like to help me get this off the ground. While we can approach this professionally, we spend no real money and our profit is generated interest, not to mention again, data.

If even one new person picked up a Bakker book, I'd be ecstatic.

Core Focus

Since some inherent consistent is important there a four things I would suggest to take as core focus:

Homogeny, or If You Can Disseminate, Disseminate

Any medium we use has to reflect homogeny. Our resources like graphics, stencils, or fonts, should be easily disseminated with the network and be identifiable as representing the same message. Also, if we use social media, it should reflect the medium - Hashtags on Twitter, not on Facebook.

Also, if possible, there would be temporal homogeny, as one of the chief abilties of an internet network is to simultaneous manifest messages in the real world, irregardless of geographic borders.

Augmented Reality

Avoiding this factor is a no-start - augmented reality as a phenomenon, if not a term, is already ubiquitous. The aspect of most crucial importance to me is the reality half. The idea is to maximize real world stimuli, which peak interest, but ultimately engagement. The social media aspect for me is incidental - that's just how people are choosing to communicate now - we have to leverage that communicative aspect by getting people communicating.

This was actually kind of the idea that coobek gave me by suggesting that people probably would google "Who are the Dunyain?"

Crossing the boundary from the internet to the real world as much as possible is key. Everyone is not on the internet. Everyone is in the real world. The more we can manifest an artifact in reality gives it a chance to interact with more people.

The Medium Is The Message

"In order to move, an idea has to be encapsulated in a medium. It could be a picture, a phrase, a written article, a movie, even a mathematical formula (e=mc2) … and the medium is the substance that the idea lives in" (Unleashing the Ideavirus, p13).

Again I'm looking to learn here. I'm interested in how dissemination works at all. How to maximize replication & imitation?

Engage & Interact

When I imagine this aspect, it seems self-evident. The more interested people are in something, the more they engage it. The more they interact the more they remember.

The Meme

"Who are the Dunyain?"

This seems synchronicity but there is no better time for Bakker fans to be asking "Who are the Dunyain?" They remain central to our speculative hearts and seeing as how they remain one of the great mysteries and motifs of the Second Apocalypse, they make a fitting focus.

Ideally, in any given communicative network of theoretic nature, you could disseminate a message worldwide onto a wall in every public space in a day. What are things we can do to aspire even minimally to that philosophy as a community?

Tools & Resources

As I'm just brain storming, I'll shotgun approach some ideas.

- Social Media
- Chalk Art & Stencils
- Stickers and Telephone Pole Flyers
- Community Bulletin

Cheers anyone who read. I'm going to read-through and post.

Even if nothing comes of this it was informative to brainstorm the thoughts. Also, I'm sure the conversation will be stellar as always .