[mrganondorf]

@ Madness--I get it.  I'm torn about the last 2 dune books.  On the one hand the writing is bad and very not Herbert.  On the other hand, I wanted to find out how he imagined it would end.  I couldn't really resist reading them and I'm not sure if it was worth it.

[Madness]

@ Madness - Now I really want what you said--a crash narrative to wrap up TUC.  It's got to be revealed because in some ways, it's the single greatest hinge of the whole story.  If the Inchoroi land with all their might and top-level tekne and fully rechargeable lasers on the promised world: nonmen and men extinguished before they even start on the No-God project, which takes like 5 minutes since they *finally* found the right spot.

It's been awhile since I've read Dune, what makes a crash narrative dunesque?

(click to show/hide)

The Honoured Matres are returning from the Scattering in fear, running from something. The impossible has happened and some hybrid Matre/Face-Dancers begin to dominate all places of the Scattering-era Universe. Then there is also the unresolved Daniel and Marty arc (I'm never going to read the Brian Herbert duology finish to this series, though a friend of mine swears Herbert the son is just as good *thumbs down*).

Don't even talk about that ending big... now I'm upset.

Lol - which Herbert the Son or the unfinished plot... or the possibility that there is something worse than Inchoroi besides Damnation?

[Wilshire]

Stop it. Unfinished plot.

IDC what Herbert Jr.'s did because I'll not read it.

[Madness]

Well, I haven't mentioned anything about Herbert the Son's stuff . All the content in the spoilers is from majority/endish of Chapterhouse: Dune.

[Wilshire]

Well, I haven't mentioned anything about Herbert the Son's stuff . All the content in the spoilers is from majority/endish of Chapterhouse: Dune.

I was just agreeing with you, but the "end" of Chapterhouse is so frustrating because the prologue wasn't there and that escape scene was slightly different, it could have come to a nice end. Instead its left unfinished forever.   

[Madness]

Haha... such is life.

[mrganondorf]

If Kellhus can "walk the Outside" why not just conjure up his own WLW?  Or better yet, compel Yatwer to make a WLW that works Kellhus will.

[mrganondorf]

---------------------------------
Thinking about topoi--

Wilshire said:

If a single man could grow an Eye in his own heart, a whole nation bent to the same thought could certainly cause it to happen. Yes?

The Ark is going to be WWWEEEIIIIRRRDDDD.  Topoi seems to be similar to Chernobyl or something.  Will this affect the Consult and Derived too?  Maybe Shae has an eye in every heart and an ear in every liver and a penis in tummy.

Aurang's penis is full of little vaginas.

[Cüréthañ]

Gross, mg. 

The eye in the heart is similar to Yatwer's manifestations in AE and Mengedda vomiting up skulls and weapons. 
Note that none of this stuff occurs unless people are present, in the case of Yatwer, she requires a priest and/or ritual.

Normally, the outside leaks passively into the world via the watcher/watched connection.
In the above cases the connection is going the other way. 
An eye in the heart is the kind of metaphorical trespass Akka expected to find. 

I imagine a soul as old and stained as Aurang's would be impervious to that sort of psycho-magic backwash.

[mrganondorf]

Gross, mg. 

The eye in the heart is similar to Yatwer's manifestations in AE and Mengedda vomiting up skulls and weapons. 
Note that none of this stuff occurs unless people are present, in the case of Yatwer, she requires a priest and/or ritual.

Normally, the outside leaks passively into the world via the watcher/watched connection.
In the above cases the connection is going the other way. 
An eye in the heart is the kind of metaphorical trespass Akka expected to find. 

I imagine a soul as old and stained as Aurang's would be impervious to that sort of psycho-magic backwash.

Lol, I blame Bakker's imagination!

I hadn't thought of the practice of sorcery as providing immunity for this kind of weirdness.  That seems perfectly consistent with everything we've seen so far.  It didn't take long for that one guy to develop an eye in the heart, if the Great Ordeal makes it to/into Golgotterath, I hope nothing bad happens to Proyas' heart

[Aural]

Do we really know that the Mansion of Viri was destroyed when the Incu fell? The glossary that the Ark fell in land ruled by Nin'janjin in the western regions of Viri. But even after that Cujara conquered Viri and it became a tributary. I think the digging too deep refers to Nin'janjin's alliance with the Inchoroi.

[mrganondorf]

Do we really know that the Mansion of Viri was destroyed when the Incu fell? The glossary that the Ark fell in land ruled by Nin'janjin in the western regions of Viri. But even after that Cujara conquered Viri and it became a tributary. I think the digging too deep refers to Nin'janjin's alliance with the Inchoroi.

I think some of Viri must have survived, isn't it in the False Sun?

I like where you are going with that--Nin literally dug too deep and came across an Inchoroi tunnel?  Or am I reading it wrong?

[The Sharmat]

If Kellhus can "walk the Outside" why not just conjure up his own WLW?  Or better yet, compel Yatwer to make a WLW that works Kellhus will.

I imagine Kellhus' trip to the Outside was a very limited, calculated affair, and one in which he was very careful not to be spotted by the really big fish. I imagine any confrontation between Kellhus and a God in the Outside would end with Kellhus being trapped in eternal damnation.

[mrganondorf]

If Kellhus can "walk the Outside" why not just conjure up his own WLW?  Or better yet, compel Yatwer to make a WLW that works Kellhus will.

I imagine Kellhus' trip to the Outside was a very limited, calculated affair, and one in which he was very careful not to be spotted by the really big fish. I imagine any confrontation between Kellhus and a God in the Outside would end with Kellhus being trapped in eternal damnation.

I bet you're right--reconnaissance only.  I really hope this bit is narrated if narratible

[mrganondorf]

Notice this bit in TJE US paperback 112, Psatma speaking Yatwerian high priestesses

"[about regaining the catacombs] where the long line of our sisters dwell, awaiting their Second Birth in the Outside."

So Psatma seems to say that at least some of the dead are not immediately reborn in the Outside?  Does Earwa have a Purgatory?