[What Came Before]

One and the same.

I remember reading Cil'Aujas and being physically jarred by the reading experience. The ideas expressed were so Tolkien to me, despite the fact that Cil'Aujas is two chapters and Moria is a couple pages. Then I realized that this is something of Bakker's jab and the point. He's playing our connotations - he just happens to have such wicked awesome prose .

Yeah - I felt like TJE was the weakest book overall but for the finale....

...and I"m still recovering from it. 


Run

[What Came Before]

Amen. TJE was the weakest book - unfortunate that it seems to enjoy the most readership of people who don't like Bakker's writing.

[What Came Before]

Maybe Kellhus destroyed Ishaul, but not as a means to kill the remaining Dunyain. Perhaps it was to force and ultimatum of sorts.

Kellhus could convince the Dunyain that he was still sane, and that he had found a way to actually complete their centuries old project soon (via sorcery, Diamotic or otherwise, via Tekne or IF, something along those lines). Then, as a way to provoke them either to come with him or die, he blew up their home and told them to follow him in his ordeal.

[What Came Before]

I'm still thinking they've just abandoned the place. Or retreated forever into the Thousand Thousand Halls.

Gah! Maybe the No-God is the reader.... when Bakker tells us that TSTSNBN is a myth. To be fair, I read PON twice thinking that that was the story.

I thought Bakker was the most audacious fucking author ever.

[What Came Before]

I've come around to the 'underground batcave' theory

[What Came Before]

The only thing that turns me off this theory is that Bakker's hinted at the Ishual being done with after that first chapter. Long enough for Achamian to find a living Dunyain society? Blinding them with his sorcerous light. Wow... creepy. Dunyain Gollums.

[What Came Before]

what will the cants of compulsion do to a dunyain?

[What Came Before]

Hmm... Lol. Give Achamian Dunyain puppets :shock:?!

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Could the dunyain come before the Cants of Compulsion?

[What Came Before]

Hm... Not without some prior knowledge of sorcery, if its even possible.

[What Came Before]

Kellhus came before the inchoroi compulsions, why not sorcery?

[What Came Before]

I'm not sure they try the Cants of Compulsion on Kellhus - Aurang tries a Galmour when compulsing Esmenet, to which Kellhus responds with a "Dara Ward," neh?

[What Came Before]

Someone is going to have too look it up, but I'm pretty sure he used a compulsion cant on Esmi. Afterwards she complained about being conflicted because she couldn't distinguish between her own thoughts and Aurang's thoughts. I'm not sure what Aurang tries to do to Kellhus though, just that he momentarily loses control and the avoids it somehow.

[What Came Before]

"The ward was simple - one of the first Achamian had taught him - an ancient Kuniuric Dara, proof against what were called incipient sorceries. His words racked the sultry air. For a moment the light of his eyes shone across her skin ... Achamian had told him of this creature, that its capacities would be largely restricted to glamours, compulsions, and possessions. The great shout that was its true form, the Schoolman had said, could be heard only as whispers and insinuations at such a distance" (TTT, p312).

[What Came Before]

Did you watch the movie '300'? Isn't it Dunyains against the anybody?

And just to continue the movie analogy - Marv from Sin City is almost perfect Cnauir.