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The Unholy Consult / Re: Do Dragons descended from Wutteat Comprehend Paradox?
« Last post by Wilshire on October 11, 2021, 01:26:31 pm »
I'm pretty sure that if the Inchoroi could have created a great deal of skin-spy schoolmen, they would have. That they did not is proof that they cannot. The same goes for Wracu. They created the wracu to compete with the Nonmen Quya. If they were able to make more effective tools that could compete directly, meaning with the use of better and stronger magic, they would have. But again they didn't, which to me clearly means they cannot.

The Inchoroi themselves are a created ensouled race - or appear to be. But they were definitely not given the tools to make ensouled weapons-races themselves. The Inchoroi themselves know very little other than what the proginators gave them, and I doubt the proginators wanted their weapon-race to be creating a bunch of ensouled being and leaving them around the galaxy.

Regarding wracu breeding, its extremely unlikely the Inchoroi were using animal husbandry to create wracu. For one, they appear to be very divergent as individuals which is basically impossible with selective breeding (we don't have dogs that have 85 legs or that can breathe underwater). There are also simply not enough wracu for it to be possible for some kind of breeding system to have taken place. I also think they have a lifespan that is far to  great to make breeding in the few thousands years they've had on Earwa to be in the cards. Its really just not possible all around.

The Unholy Consult / Re: Do Dragons descended from Wutteat Comprehend Paradox?
« Last post by SmilerLoki on October 10, 2021, 12:52:29 pm »
Bakker has mentioned that some apes and whales as well as a the rare Sranc or Bashrag have souls.
I remember Bakker saying that an occasional animal can develop a soul, but nothing about Sranc or Bashrag doing the same.
Quote from: R.Scott Bakker
The idea has been that only the rare animal ever 'awakens' enough to develop a soul in Earwa, but that's not something I've ever explored to date
The Unholy Consult / Re: Do Dragons descended from Wutteat Comprehend Paradox?
« Last post by Cynical Cat on October 10, 2021, 11:16:22 am »
One should remember that the Inchoroi didn't want to create large number of souled beings.   That they are incapable is purely our projection on the text and contradicted by the existence of rare souled members of the Weapon Races.  The Wracu, unlike the Sranc or Bashrag, would in exist in numbers small enough that their possession of souls wouldn't endanger the plan.   There's another data point in favor of them having souls, namely the conversation Akka has the with scalpers in The Judging Eye.  A dragon would choose to withdraw from men it didn't want to confront instead of being driven by its instincts to fight them.

Bakker has mentioned that some apes and whales as well as a the rare Sranc or Bashrag have souls.  Sranc and Bashrags have language and tool use, but are ruled by their instincts and appear to have no capacity for introspection or reflection.   Wracu seem, like the Inchoroi, to possess similar instincts (plenty of sadism is on display in their interactions and they seem to love cruel word games) but can choose how they act.  They seem tied to the No God by allegiance to a common cause, not puppets that the No God can shout through.

The Wracu are clearly an engineered race, but one based on a template created by high level biological mastery and then derived using cruder methods and selective breeding.  They are unlikely to be "cybernetic" as opposed to having a biology that concentrates iron in the bones and so forth.  They are also products of a people who know about the Outside and have technology that can contact it to some degree but do not have sorcery.   They are likely something like biological warmachines connected to the Outside.

It is also important to remember that Chorae do not salt practitioners of the Psuke.  The Psuke is close enough to sorcery that the Chorae still block it and are lethal to its practitioners, but the effects are not the same.  The Wracu are likely close enough to sorcerers that Chorae are mildly toxic to them.
What passes for a soul for a Skin Spy (remembering that one of them, admittedly an outlier, could perform sorcery) may not be easy to distinguish from a weak souled human.  This could also be true only up to a point, allowing a Cishaurim to recognize Skin Spies by their souls once he knew what he was looking for.
The Unholy Consult / Re: The Relation of Ishterebinth, Sranc and Dagliash
« Last post by Cynical Cat on October 10, 2021, 10:36:23 am »
With regard to the issue of killing Kelhus as Daglaish, recall that the Consult intends to have two of his children in the possession of their Nonmen allies at the time.  Even if they do kill him, their will be multiple survivors of his bloodline.
Writing / Re: Three Roses, Bk. 1, by Roger Eichorn (sample chapters)
« Last post by Rots on September 30, 2021, 03:19:35 pm »
You know i had off and on wondered what became of this book. I figured i just missed it somewhere/somehow. Glad to see you that (Roger) are still working on it and im once again looking forward to reading it.
Literature / Re: Yearly Reading Targets 2021
« Last post by The P on September 27, 2021, 12:25:51 pm »
Mightier than the Sword by K. J. Parker (19)

It's great of course.  Set in the Parker-verse, we get mentions of places and people we've seen before (Saloninus, of course, Permia).  Sometimes I think I want to comb through his work and compile a geography and history of everything he mentions, but worldbuilding isn't what he's about, so maybe it would be a futile exercise.  It at least has the appearance of consistency, and that's probably all Parker is going for.

This one follows the nephew of the Emperor, who's in a bad way while his wife runs the show, sent out to deal with a series of raids on monasteries.  The Empire is the Robur, who figure in the Siege trilogy, this is probably set after those events, but it hardly matters.  It has the typical twists and obfuscations, musings on literature and empire, wry takes on monastic orders, standard Parker fare.  Thoroughly enjoyable, I will never not recommend a Parker novella.
General Misc. / Re: Quotes
« Last post by sciborg2 on September 24, 2021, 09:22:06 pm »
“Only the pure soul can truthfully live in this tension: to know about the possible ruin and still remain tirelessly active for all that is possible in the world.”
 -Karl Jaspers


"As properly unconditional, the subject is a free being. It is truly present as the self-conscious Existenz which in action finds itself in its objectivity but cannot be derived from objective being, no more than that being can be derived from it."
 — Karl Jaspers
Literature / Re: Yearly Reading Targets 2021
« Last post by The P on September 24, 2021, 12:27:34 pm »
Beneath the Twisted Trees by Bradley P. Beaulieu ( :'()

I think I'm giving up on this series.  It's not bad.  I've mostly enjoyed it so far, but....  It just lacks some undefinable quality that would compel me to keep reading.  The writing itself is fine, the story is fine, the characters are fine.  Maybe I'm at the point in life where I really need something special to get me to read in the midst of constant interruptions and chaos (kids), I dunno.  But this series is not it for some reason.  It's like there are great ideas and possibilities lurking on the edges of where the story actually goes.  The whole time I'm waiting for that awesome something to break in and reshape the story, but it inevitably goes somewhere less exciting.  And it's not like nothing happens or the plot doesn't advance, we've come quite a way since the first book.  So a third of the way through book 4 I decided I was tired of it.  Quitting this far in leaves a bad taste in my mouth, but there it is.  I liked Beaulieu's earlier trilogy; he's not a bad writer.

I'm moving on.  Next is a KJP novella that I somehow missed a couple years ago.
Writing / Re: Three Roses, Bk. 1, by Roger Eichorn (sample chapters)
« Last post by reichorn on September 23, 2021, 06:08:45 pm »
Whoah, amazing to see an update Roger!

Glad to see you still lurking 'round these parts!  Yup, I'm STILL plugging away at the book... but now I'm doing it full-time, which means it's actually going to get done.  I'd love to know what you think of the new opening chapters.
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