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21
The Unholy Consult / Collapse of Object and Subject
« Last post by TaoHorror on June 21, 2021, 03:45:59 pm »
Not sure if we've ever figured out why the original insertant and lil' Kel were able to operate TNG. We've been talking about it in Facebook and bringing it here in case some of you are not in the FB group. Could it be that a twin killing their twin causes their consciousness to collapse with their unconsciousness which then makes you invisible to the gods since you wouldn't have a soul any more ( soul destruction? or does it go somewhere? ). If this happens to you, then your conscious and unconscious minds would be objectively aware of each other and can even talk to each other. So the original insertant and the dude 2,000 years ago ( forget his name ) were both twins who murdered their twin, obj/sub collapse, their soul is gone and then can operate TNG. TNG is invisible as well as the insertant is - explains why the Luck Warrior couldn't see Lil' Kel, was invisible to the gods since his ojb/sub collapsed. So back in the day, the Consult couldn't figure this out and just sent a horde of people through trying to find someone who could turn it on. If they knew this was how to make it work, they would've simply found twins and engineered one to murder the other.
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General Misc. / Re: What are you watching?
« Last post by H on June 21, 2021, 01:37:14 pm »
Snuck up on me, but War of the Worlds (from Fox/Epix/Canal+) is back on.  If you can understand French, all the season 2 episodes have aired, but Epix is over halfway though the show now too (I guess with an English dub?).
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Literature / Re: Yearly Reading Targets 2021
« Last post by Wilshire on June 18, 2021, 03:45:26 pm »
Falling Free by Lois McMaster Bujold (21)
I'd have to say I was impressed by this one, though admittedly because it was written in '86 which makes it stand out against its peers. Bujold actually wrote and published some scifi in the 80's that wasn't strictly a futurist vision with characters built to explore the setting, though the 80's aren't quite as egregious as earlier decades... There was actual characterization, good prose, amusing dialogue.

Shards of Honor by Lois McMaster Bujold (22)
This one was less impressive from a prose standpoint. It was the first book published in the series (Falling Free is first chronological but was written a few years later), and imo it shows.

Overall I was mostly underwhelmed. Bujold is a good writer, and I can see why the Vorkosigan saga was popular at the time and decades later. But today I'd say it falls more toward good than great. I don't see myself reading the other 20ish books in the series - there's just better alternatives now. I got these two for free from audible so no harm done, though I am glad I didn't have to pay for them.
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The Unholy Consult / Re: The Relation of Ishterebinth, Sranc and Dagliash
« Last post by Wilshire on June 18, 2021, 03:30:37 pm »
As I'm not sure the Heron Spear actually did anything last time, I do think its possible some kind of magic laser ballista scenario this time around with Akka pulling the trigger.
Well, there is that dream where Akka sees Anaxophus failing to "take up the Spear" and just parroting the No-God's words.  But it is totally unclear if that is a clear vision of the past, or a paranoids corruption of the true.  I guess one thing is that it leaves the Herron Spear well and open to be anything the narrative ends up wanting it to be though.
Yeah at this point in time, we know that Bakker is not entirely sure of all the exact details of TNG even as he finished TUC. This could be something he left open to decide later if he needed/wanted to use it.

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The Unholy Consult / Re: The Relation of Ishterebinth, Sranc and Dagliash
« Last post by H on June 18, 2021, 11:22:09 am »
As I'm not sure the Heron Spear actually did anything last time, I do think its possible some kind of magic laser ballista scenario this time around with Akka pulling the trigger.

Well, there is that dream where Akka sees Anaxophus failing to "take up the Spear" and just parroting the No-God's words.  But it is totally unclear if that is a clear vision of the past, or a paranoids corruption of the true.  I guess one thing is that it leaves the Herron Spear well and open to be anything the narrative ends up wanting it to be though.
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The Unholy Consult / Re: The Relation of Ishterebinth, Sranc and Dagliash
« Last post by SmilerLoki on June 17, 2021, 07:41:07 pm »
It is possible that the No-God stopped functioning entirely by itself last time, enacting some time shenanigans of the kind that bridges the two iterations of the Apocalypse. Which would certainly explain the fact that the Second Apocalypse at least in some large scale respects closely mirrors the First (so far).
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The Unholy Consult / Re: The Relation of Ishterebinth, Sranc and Dagliash
« Last post by Wilshire on June 17, 2021, 01:35:20 pm »
Still not convinced.  I will try to put out my thoughts.  I'm erratic and in sore need of a reread.  If the Celmomian Prophesy is the basis for their "knowledge" of needing Kellhus as an insertant, they are making some intense cognitive leaps (which I guess maybe I can't be expected to understand, them being Dunyain and all).  All the prophesy says is an Anasurimbor will return at the end of the world.  I don't think there's any more to it, since we are shown the scene where Celmomas says it to Seswatha.  That's so vague, it could mean any of the many Anasurimbors running around, why decide on the most difficult to grab?

I would just like to say, yes 1000%.

So much weight is put onto the prophecy, both in the books and in discussion here/elsewhere. But the prophesy itself sucks. In all the iteration we get, it boils down to the section I bolded above. "An Anasurimbor" is the Harbinger of the end, the warning sign that the end is nigh.

If you allow for Kellhus being that Anasurimbor, which I think we aught, the prophecy is fulfilled once Kellhus shows up in the Three Seas halfway into TDTCB.

It most emphatically does not say that an Anasurimbor causes the end of the world.

Physics?  This is Eärwa!

I mean, I am thinking this lack of Chorae is going to matter, but it definitely is unclear how or why.  Especially since I am holding fast to my "Mimara answers the No-God" prediction, of course.
I agree that its more Gun than Herring. It seems a rather unnecessary red herring, and too strange a detail to just throw out there.

That said, they thought it was going to be Kellhus in there. Maybe hoping they could use some metagnosis translocation or something. Now that its Kelmomas who doesn't know any neat spells, it could be for naught and provide an avenue for defeat that wasn't available last time.

As I'm not sure the Heron Spear actually did anything last time, I do think its possible some kind of magic laser ballista scenario this time around with Akka pulling the trigger.
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Is it possible the nonmen leading the sranc army are from ishteribinth? the delegation that shows up to the ordeal says theyre surprised they survived. maybe they were in on it.

Also I never put this together, but it can't be a coincidence that they wanted kelhus to go to dagliash and there happened to be a crazy trap there, all while depriving him of his most trusted sorceress + 2. A very tidy trap now that I think on it.

The glossary states that the delegation was a "false emissary." Not that anyone needed proof that this was part of the trap, but that seems definitive.
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General Misc. / Re: What are you watching?
« Last post by TaoHorror on June 12, 2021, 01:09:11 pm »
Bloodlands

Huh, might have to check this out.

If you weren't watching Mare of Easttown though, I think it is another good option.  Nothing revolutionary, but the show (to me) is very well written and well acted, even if it is a bit formulaic.  But it doesn't pull any punches really.  The show is complete as on Sunday, 7 episodes.

The kids depart to their mother's tomorrow, so I'll start this show this weekend. It looks like my kinda thing.

I started this, H - I dig it, I like it a lot so far, some nice humor strewed about.

I watched City on a Hill ( 2 seasons out so far ). Bit over done in parts, if you can forgive it for that, there is some great dark comedy. Pay attention to episode 5 in season 1 - don't consider this a spoiler really since it's an ancillary part of the story, so I'll spill it: the (sorta) corrupt Boston FBI agent ( Jackie Rohr - Kevin Bacon ) and this NYC cop hate each other and the cop is dying in an ambulance from gun fire and the agent torments him while he's dying, LOL! Some funny stuff. Anyways, not the greatest thing you'll ever watch, but it's pretty good.
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Literature / Re: Yearly Reading Targets 2021
« Last post by Madness on June 11, 2021, 01:31:19 am »
A Brightness Long Ago by Guy Gavriel Kay (20)

Now there's a great book. GGK did something amazing with A Brightness Long Ago. The first book I read by him was Tigana, and while quite good,  it doesn't hold a candle to A Brightness Long ago. The pacing is wonderful, actions and consequences piled up without feeling rushed. The way he tells the story through a series of flashbacks and mixed POVs is crisp, unique, and refreshingly. The whole book feels like a brilliantly connected series of short stories, just long enough to make you feel something profound but not so long as to get mired in the telling. You skip lightly across the surface of the world, catches glimpses of the depths beneath.

The way the story is told, maybe even more so than the story being told, is what turns this book into something magnificent.

And who doesn't love a quote about books inside a book:
Quote
So many stories can be told, in and around and braided through the one we are being given. Don’t we all know that stories can be sparks leaping from the bonfire of an offered tale to become their own fire, if they land on the right ground, if kindling is there and a light breeze but not a hard wind?

Someone is deciding what to tell us. What to add, what not to share at all or when (and how) to reveal a thing. We know this, even as we picture in our minds another young man, a tailor’s son from Seressa, remembering a spring ride, how we used to like to sing…

We want to sink into the tale, leave our own lives behind, find lives to encounter even to enter for a time. We can resist being reminded of an artificer, the craft. We want to be immersed, lost, not remember what it is we are doing, having done to us, as we turn pages, look at a painting, hear a song, watch a dance.

Still, that is what is being done to us. It is.

Loved it.

Damn. I suppose I know what I'm reading after Leadership, Strategy, and Tactics.
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