Inchoroi vs Gods/the Divine on other worlds

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« on: May 15, 2013, 12:24:13 am »
Quote from: WillemB
Okay, so it says this on the PON wikia:

Quote
The goal of the Inchoroi is to prevent the eventual eternal damnation of their souls by severing the connection between the World and the Outside. They believe this can be accomplished by reducing the number of souls in the world below 144,000. They attempted this on many other worlds, prevailing each time only to find themselves still damned, before the Incû-Holoinas crashed into Eärwa, which they view as the land of their redemption[3].
http://princeofnothing.wikia.com/wiki/Inchoroi

Do you think that the Inchoroi got to Earwa and said, "Crap!  We fled across the void and still, STILL, Ajokli is waiting here for us."  Are the gods themselves localized to worlds?  Or is it the One God they're fleeing?  Or merely whatever universal principle or divine mechanism that causes souls to be damned?

And, if Earwa is the land of their redemption... why?  The gods COULD see them on other worlds, but not on Earwa as it seems to be the case?

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« Reply #1 on: May 15, 2013, 12:24:19 am »
Quote from: Wilshire
The inchoroi are, presumably, intellects with souls (like men and nonmen). The 'gods' can seem just just as well as everyone else. Its the products of their tekne that they cannot see.

If the Inchoroi are damned on every other world, it would seem that the gods are not localized, or at least there are gods specific to each world that do some kind of interaction in outside.

Or, if there is such a thing as one uber god (and it actively participates in the world and isnt asleep), then yeah they could just be fleeing that one.


So to answer your questions, all yes, all no, or some combination of them. :P

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« Reply #2 on: May 15, 2013, 12:24:23 am »
Quote from: WillemB
Thanks for helping me to parse this, Wilshire!

I get the sense that the gods are represented as humanoid, whereas my impression is that the inchoroi are insectoid like hulking aphids.  If the gods are truly universal in the physical sense, are their representations being anthropomorphized to be more palatable for humanoids from Earwa?  Or is the outside localized to the physical, and the gods/demons have physical characteristics that resonate with the reality of the physical realm they have interactions with?

We do know, from Akka's battle with the demon in TTT and others (didn't he battle and defeat a demon in Warrior Prophet?), that the demons are not necessarily humanoid in character.  But then... Kellhus has demon heads described as having mouths that move, which sounds humanoid to me.

My gut is to think the the Outside doesn't have dimension in the same way as the physical world, but rather works in terms of spheres of authority and influence; where souls instead of distance are the metric.

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« Reply #3 on: May 15, 2013, 12:24:28 am »
Quote from: Wilshire
In WP, when Akka escapes from SS torture. He destroys the entire complex and fights Iyokus at the end, who is standing in a ring of runes and summons a ciphrang, that Akka as Seswatha dominates.


Anthropomorphized. Yeah I imagine something of this nature, then can do pretty much whatever they want inside their own spheres of influence. The outside is where subjective reality is maximized and objectivity is minimized. Earwa being the exact opposite. I'd say that the Gods can appear as however they want to the Earwans, but when a Ciphrang is pulled into the world, its form is set (maybe even forced into some kind of actual/true form).

Maybe it is the same thing with Kellhus. Assuming he actually did go to the outside and killed some demons, be may have been able to morph those heads into something more humanoid. The Ciphrang are described, I think, as having Elephantine heads... would be awkward to run around with spoils of conquest tied to your belt that where bigger than you.

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« Reply #4 on: May 15, 2013, 12:24:33 am »
Quote from: Callan S.
Perhaps he convinces them to shrink?

That's why one of the skulls jaws seems to move. It's not actually dead?

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« Reply #5 on: May 15, 2013, 12:24:38 am »
Quote from: WillemB
Mmm... Kellhus in the outside (or does one say, "out the outside"). 

It's like People Magazine: who did he see and what did he do while he was there?  Oh to be a fly on that wall.

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« Reply #6 on: May 15, 2013, 12:24:43 am »
Quote from: Callan S.
I would like to be told about it by Space Cloud Princess, from Adventure Time.

"Then the drama started..."

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« Reply #7 on: May 15, 2013, 12:24:48 am »
Quote from: Madness
Lol @ Earwa tabloids.

I checked the citation and whoever wrote that entry to the wiki neglects to mention that that is entirely Wutteat's assertions. Though, while looking it up he actually mentions that he's lived for at least 2500 years blinded. Is it mentioned who blinds the Father of Dragons?

It is a really good questions as to why the Localized Judgement of Earwa translates into Void-wide damnation, Willem.

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« Reply #8 on: May 15, 2013, 12:24:53 am »
Quote from: Madness
I moved all our Wracu speculation to the Wracu[/b] thread in the White-Luck Warrior subforum.

Cheers, Wilshire.

Garet Jax

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« Reply #9 on: August 22, 2014, 04:21:16 pm »
Quote from: Callan S.
Perhaps he convinces them to shrink?

That's why one of the skulls jaws seems to move. It's not actually dead?


I like this Callan.  It makes me wonder if, the summoner can force the Ciphrang to a certain form, could Kellhus have made them become heads to give the illusion he killed them and be siphoning their power somehow?  Using them to increase his strength and/or using them as 1st and 2nd lives to lose before his is ever threatened?

mrganondorf

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« Reply #10 on: August 23, 2014, 05:27:15 am »
If this is true, maybe he's got like 100,000 demons hidden in small things just waiting to burst out!  If he did enslave all those demons then they would all want to munch on him, maybe they would go to war with each other over him: Kellhus tricks the Outside into devouring the Outside???

Wilshire

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« Reply #11 on: September 05, 2014, 04:46:13 pm »
I wonder what a confrontation in the Outside would look like. I imagine that any one god that moves into the realm of another would be at a disadvantage. 100-way-deadlock.

But what if they were pulled into Earwa, forcing an amout of objectivity to their power. Then what would we have (other than a devastated Earwa).
One of the other conditions of possibility.

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« Reply #12 on: September 05, 2014, 06:48:38 pm »
Wilshire you made me think of the Inchoroi on other worlds.  Perhaps they were just minding their own business until Hell burst out and ravaged the world.  The Inchoroi flee from world to world, finally finding the Promised World, the world least open to the Outside.  This is the one place where the Inchoroi would have time to seal the world before the gods broke through and killed everything?

Wilshire

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« Reply #13 on: September 10, 2014, 02:04:05 am »
That would be quite the reversal, since we are basically given the story that the Inchoroi have been causing hell on celestial bodies for centuries, killing off the inhabitants and moving on.
One of the other conditions of possibility.

Garet Jax

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« Reply #14 on: September 10, 2014, 03:46:19 pm »
I wonder what a confrontation in the Outside would look like. I imagine that any one god that moves into the realm of another would be at a disadvantage. 100-way-deadlock.

I never looked at it as "realms".  It seemed to me that their power was relative to the amount of "souls that reached for them" and whichever Ciphrang had the most souls, would have the most power.