Recent Posts

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The Unholy Consult / Re: The Dûnyain, Shaeonanra, and the Mangaecca
« Last post by H Wilson on September 13, 2024, 06:35:19 pm »
No one from the Consult knew of Ishual, and none of them had enough time to invent the program, nurse it through the infancy, and then somehow transition it into some kind of safehouse to begin the real breeding program.

 This is the thing I question. They could have known and forgotten: Bakker has stated that the Inchoroi have grown decrepit in the manner of Nonmen, and though Shae seems the most "with it", he's just a cosmic ping pong ball, so who knows how his memory works!?
Again, I agree that this idea is unlikely, but Shae was knocking around for 1000 years prior to the Dûnyain finding Ishuäl, so there was plenty of time to build this little side project and then forget all about it.
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The Unholy Consult / Re: The Dûnyain, Shaeonanra, and the Mangaecca
« Last post by Wilshire on August 15, 2024, 12:47:07 pm »
This is the first I can remember hearing of a theory that the Dunyain were created by the Consult. It seems very unlikely. The Consult aren't ancient like the Nonmen or the Inchoroi, so them just forgetting about it seems very unlikely.

The Dunyain were an unimportant and tiny cult. If not for the 1st apocalypse they probably would have remained this way. Their whole breeding project thing was only possible because they found an abandoned castle in the woods. No one from the Consult knew of Ishual, and none of them had enough time to invent the program, nurse it through the infancy, and then somehow transition it into some kind of safehouse to begin the real breeding program.
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The Unholy Consult / Re: The Dûnyain, Shaeonanra, and the Mangaecca
« Last post by CoolCatCid on June 10, 2024, 07:04:33 am »
Is there actually any evidence (textual or authorial comments) that suggests that the Consult created the Dunyain? I really can't think of any reason why this theory would be true, and as you mentioned, it just introduces a whole bunch of problems that have to be dealt with. I'd also note that it would seem weird for the Consult to have created the Dunyain as Dunyain philosophy is incompatible with Consult thought (as well as verifiably incorrect). Most noteworthily, the world of Earwa is non-deterministic (something the Consult would be well aware of).
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The Unholy Consult / The Dûnyain, Shaeonanra, and the Mangaecca
« Last post by H Wilson on June 09, 2024, 10:34:33 am »
Many people have postulated that it is Shaeonanra speaking through the Mutilated, based on extratextual remarks from the author, as well as hints in the text, such as the speaking in rounds, or the line "the truth spoke with one soul" [paraphrased].

Likewise it has been suggested that the Consult created the Dûnyain, or directed them to Ishual. The biggest difficulty that this theory faces is the fact that the Consult clearly do not know who the Dûnyain are, as seen in the epilogue of TWP, and elsewhere throughout PoN. There are a few way around this, though, and in this post I will present a new explanation for how it could be the Consult do not know who and what the Dûnyain are.

The first explanation is simply that they forgot. We know that you can't raise walls against what is forgotten, and with 3/4 of the Consult leadership being ancient, all it takes is for Shae to become a bit erratic and the whole endeavour falls from memory.
The other possibility is that Shaeonanra set this up in secret, paranoid that his inhuman allies had no need of soul trapping devices, and could choose to deny him the means to keep his soul in the Inward if he displeased them. We only know for certain that Aurang (and possibly Aurax) has no knowledge of the Dûnyain.

These two explanations seem unlikely, though. The problem with the first idea is that the Inchoroi seem to have decent enough memory, so an undertaking such as this would probably not be easily forgotten, and the second falls apart because Shauriatas appears to be on good terms with the rest of the Consult, and they seem to need him as much as he needs them.

My idea is if the Consult has something to do with founding the Dûnyain (far from certain, to say the least) that it was another member of the Mangaecca, not Shae, who set them up. We know that by the First Apocalypse Shae was using his soul trapping larval thing, and that other members of the Mangaecca were able to hold on for an unnatural length of time, but were all dead by round 2. Though Shae might have a privileged position amongst the Consult, there is nothing to say his brothers enjoyed such security.
But if that schoolman should die before his breeding project bore fruit, all knowledge of Ishual would leave the world.
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The Unholy Consult / Re: [TUC Spoilers] Music for TUC
« Last post by CoolCatCid on April 08, 2024, 06:53:12 am »
In a desperate attempt to restart interest in this forum, I'll post an atmospheric black metal album that reminds me of TUC. The lyrics are about Franklin's Lost Expedition (an interesting and tragic story if you want to read about it). That sort of hopeless fight against the environment gives me bakker vibes:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&v=yHSiojE2QnA
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Literature / Re: Yearly Reading Targets 2024
« Last post by The P on January 30, 2024, 09:49:55 pm »
Traitor of Redwinter by Ed McDonald (3)

This is the second in the series.  I like it.  It's not as good as his previous trilogy, and tends a little closer to general fantasy than "grimdark."  This one is a little more magic school-ey, but it does a good job of not being annoying about it.
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Introduce Yourself / Re: Greetings Zaudunyani
« Last post by H on January 30, 2024, 03:44:00 pm »
Why don't you just shut it or something, idk, not really my problem is it?

"FLEE TO YOUR HEARTHS, AND TELL THOSE WHO WOULD LISTEN HOW YOU SURVIVED FOR TELLING THE FIRST, THE FATHER, THE WORLD YET LIVED."
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Introduce Yourself / Re: Greetings Zaudunyani
« Last post by CoolCatCid on January 30, 2024, 03:39:34 pm »
The Judging Eye is open.

Why don't you just shut it or something, idk, not really my problem is it?

Welcome, stranger! Feel free to toss some breadcrumbs around and see if the vultures still circle.

Great idea, stranger! I hunger now for both the thoughts of Bakker himself, and for something of the more nutritional variety.
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Introduce Yourself / Re: Greetings Zaudunyani
« Last post by Wilshire on January 30, 2024, 03:32:51 pm »
Welcome, stranger! Feel free to toss some breadcrumbs around and see if the vultures still circle.
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Introduce Yourself / Re: Greetings Zaudunyani
« Last post by H on January 30, 2024, 03:30:18 pm »
The Judging Eye is open.
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