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The Unholy Consult / Re: The Dûnyain, Shaeonanra, and the Mangaecca
« Last post by CoolCatCid on June 10, 2024, 07:04:33 am »
Is there actually any evidence (textual or authorial comments) that suggests that the Consult created the Dunyain? I really can't think of any reason why this theory would be true, and as you mentioned, it just introduces a whole bunch of problems that have to be dealt with. I'd also note that it would seem weird for the Consult to have created the Dunyain as Dunyain philosophy is incompatible with Consult thought (as well as verifiably incorrect). Most noteworthily, the world of Earwa is non-deterministic (something the Consult would be well aware of).
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The Unholy Consult / The Dûnyain, Shaeonanra, and the Mangaecca
« Last post by H Wilson on June 09, 2024, 10:34:33 am »
Many people have postulated that it is Shaeonanra speaking through the Mutilated, based on extratextual remarks from the author, as well as hints in the text, such as the speaking in rounds, or the line "the truth spoke with one soul" [paraphrased].

Likewise it has been suggested that the Consult created the Dûnyain, or directed them to Ishual. The biggest difficulty that this theory faces is the fact that the Consult clearly do not know who the Dûnyain are, as seen in the epilogue of TWP, and elsewhere throughout PoN. There are a few way around this, though, and in this post I will present a new explanation for how it could be the Consult do not know who and what the Dûnyain are.

The first explanation is simply that they forgot. We know that you can't raise walls against what is forgotten, and with 3/4 of the Consult leadership being ancient, all it takes is for Shae to become a bit erratic and the whole endeavour falls from memory.
The other possibility is that Shaeonanra set this up in secret, paranoid that his inhuman allies had no need of soul trapping devices, and could choose to deny him the means to keep his soul in the Inward if he displeased them. We only know for certain that Aurang (and possibly Aurax) has no knowledge of the Dûnyain.

These two explanations seem unlikely, though. The problem with the first idea is that the Inchoroi seem to have decent enough memory, so an undertaking such as this would probably not be easily forgotten, and the second falls apart because Shauriatas appears to be on good terms with the rest of the Consult, and they seem to need him as much as he needs them.

My idea is if the Consult has something to do with founding the Dûnyain (far from certain, to say the least) that it was another member of the Mangaecca, not Shae, who set them up. We know that by the First Apocalypse Shae was using his soul trapping larval thing, and that other members of the Mangaecca were able to hold on for an unnatural length of time, but were all dead by round 2. Though Shae might have a privileged position amongst the Consult, there is nothing to say his brothers enjoyed such security.
But if that schoolman should die before his breeding project bore fruit, all knowledge of Ishual would leave the world.
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The Unholy Consult / Re: [TUC Spoilers] Music for TUC
« Last post by CoolCatCid on April 08, 2024, 06:53:12 am »
In a desperate attempt to restart interest in this forum, I'll post an atmospheric black metal album that reminds me of TUC. The lyrics are about Franklin's Lost Expedition (an interesting and tragic story if you want to read about it). That sort of hopeless fight against the environment gives me bakker vibes:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&v=yHSiojE2QnA
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Literature / Re: Yearly Reading Targets 2024
« Last post by The P on January 30, 2024, 09:49:55 pm »
Traitor of Redwinter by Ed McDonald (3)

This is the second in the series.  I like it.  It's not as good as his previous trilogy, and tends a little closer to general fantasy than "grimdark."  This one is a little more magic school-ey, but it does a good job of not being annoying about it.
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Introduce Yourself / Re: Greetings Zaudunyani
« Last post by H on January 30, 2024, 03:44:00 pm »
Why don't you just shut it or something, idk, not really my problem is it?

"FLEE TO YOUR HEARTHS, AND TELL THOSE WHO WOULD LISTEN HOW YOU SURVIVED FOR TELLING THE FIRST, THE FATHER, THE WORLD YET LIVED."
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Introduce Yourself / Re: Greetings Zaudunyani
« Last post by CoolCatCid on January 30, 2024, 03:39:34 pm »
The Judging Eye is open.

Why don't you just shut it or something, idk, not really my problem is it?

Welcome, stranger! Feel free to toss some breadcrumbs around and see if the vultures still circle.

Great idea, stranger! I hunger now for both the thoughts of Bakker himself, and for something of the more nutritional variety.
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Introduce Yourself / Re: Greetings Zaudunyani
« Last post by Wilshire on January 30, 2024, 03:32:51 pm »
Welcome, stranger! Feel free to toss some breadcrumbs around and see if the vultures still circle.
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Introduce Yourself / Re: Greetings Zaudunyani
« Last post by H on January 30, 2024, 03:30:18 pm »
The Judging Eye is open.
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Introduce Yourself / Greetings Zaudunyani
« Last post by CoolCatCid on January 30, 2024, 03:25:24 pm »
I just figured that I should say hello, because as a newbie to the forums, there is no possible way that anybody here could have ever heard of me before in absolutely any context.
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Literature / Re: Yearly Reading Targets 2024
« Last post by The P on January 24, 2024, 01:49:21 pm »
Hey, I'll try to last longer than 4 months this year.

The Adventures of Amina al-Sirafi by S. A. Chakraborty (1)

(for book club) This was pretty good.  Takes place in the Indian Ocean around 3-400AD starring a semi-retired female pirate and her crew.  I like the older protagonist a la Gemmel's Legend, my one real complaint is the characters all seem to think and behave like modern people rather than what would be more in line with the setting.  It's a kinda long ago prequel to some trilogy she wrote, but I don't think I'm impressed enough to read more.

Return to Edan by Philip Chase (2)

This really dragged on.  The second book kinda had the big conflict of the story, and most of this finale felt like falling action.  The writing is pretty good, and I'd maybe consider reading something else he writes since I generally liked the first two books in the trilogy.
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