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Messages - CFKane

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I disagree with your conclusion.

"as Dunyain, you will be compelled to master the consequences of your wickedness..."

To me, the implication is simply dominance over circumstance. The end might be the same, some machination designed to kill or shut out the gods, but in my mind, this would necessarily mean the destruction of the Consult as well. A Dunyain wouldn't suffer them to live. They hold too much power and mystery, and are probably indomitable in the timeframe of a single human lifetime.

Poorly chosen words on my part, I suppose. Given what we know of the Dunyain, they would almost certainly attempt to control or destroy the consult (as they did the Holy War in the first series). I'm not sure that the distinction really matters, however, if they reach the same conclusion about how to close the world to the outside. If the Dunyain do not join and seize control of the Consult, they would likely just create a new, more effective version of the Consult in its place. Assuming there is no creative new way to close the world to the outside.

Also, if you are the Dunyain, why settle for a single human lifetime when you can use the creepy Shaeönanra approach?

Prediction: The Mandate's experience of Seswatha's life will continue to revealed as a highly edited version, leaving out significant betrayals of the mission.

Prediction: Achamian and Mimara will meet up with Kellhus. Mimara will betray Achamian for Kellhus, echoing Esmenet.

Prediction: The Great Ordeal/Kellhus will discover that the Cisharum are necessary to defeat the consult, but are sadly unavailable due to the events of the first trilogy.

Question: What is the endgame for the Yatwer/WLW set? It is a given that they are blind to the no-god, but what about the rest of the consult and its machinations? Are they aware of the plan to close the outside?

Question: Does the blindness of the gods to the no-god hint at a higher level of causality that may not be perceptible? By which I mean, does what comes before actually determine what comes after, and is the timeless perspective of the gods an illusion?

Question: Why is Kellhus telling Proyas the truth about himself?

Question: Is Kellhus telling Proyas the truth about himself?

Prediction: Continuing revelation will reveal that the dialogue between Kellhus and Moenghus at the end of Thousandfold Thought is even more vital than we realized.

Question: What is the deal with aporetic sorcery? Will we find out the metaphysics of chorae and the secrets of their creation?

3: Akka insisting that Kellhus intends for them to be at Ishual/encounter his son, etc, is just him being paranoid.  The Aspect-Emperor didn't sneak into his tower and read his notes.  What they are up to right now is unknown to Kellhus.  Kellhus doesn't care about anything other than his Great Ordeal.

A part of me desperately hopes that this is true. Achamian's personal war against Kellhus seems to give him purpose, and it would be interesting to see how Achamian responds to Kellhus's utter indifference.

And as always, with the answers, we get more questions:


2. If the Dunyain are ev-il, who's side are they on?  TJE views the Dunyain as monsters and as mentioned above, so does Kellhus in Chapter 1.  But they sure don't seem to be aligned with the Consult. 

Blast from the past: In Thousandfold Thought, when Kellhus confronts Moenghus:

Quote from: Thousandfold Thought
“These voices,” Moënghus said with slow deliberation, “what do they say of me?”

His father, Kellhus realized, had finally grasped the principles of this encounter. Moënghus had assumed that his son would be the one requiring instruction. He had not foreseen it as possible, let alone inevitable, that the Thousandfold Thought would outgrow the soul of its incubation—and discard it. “They warn me,” Kellhus said, “that you are Dûnyain still.”

One of the captive skin-spies convulsed against its chains, vomited threads of spittle into the pit below. “I see. And this is why I am to die?”

Kellhus looked to the haloes about his hands. “The crimes you’ve committed, Father … the sins … When you learn of the damnation that awaits you, when you come to believe, you will be no different from the Inchoroi. As Dûnyain, you will be compelled to master the consequences of your wickedness. Like the Consult, you will come to see tyranny in what is holy … And you will war as they war.”

It seems that the Thousandfold Thought ultimately drives the Dunyain into the arms of the Consult. Whether that means that they are evil is a different question, and depends on our interpretation of evil. Evil in the Earwa-universe frame, or evil in our moral universe. I think closing the world to the outside sounds like a laudable goal, although the primary proponents of that solution seem reprehensible.

This does suggest that my pet theory, that Kellhus pursues the same aims as the consult, may be incorrect. Although, if Mimara correctly perceives him as damned, and he knows that he is damned, that may change his point of view from first-trilogy Kellhus.

Also, interesting that Kellhus points to his father's crimes, sins, and wickedness when Kellhus engaged in similar exploits in his journey to meet his father.

Welcome back, Galbrod and CFKane, and welcome to the Second Apocalypse, Tasty, painbird, swirlingupwards, and AWallis.

Thanks. I'm on my third (or fourth?) reread at the moment. Hopefully I'll have something to add to the community here, other than my undying belief that Kellhus is working towards the same objective as the consult.

Prediction: Kellhus will reveal his true aim--to close the world to the outside. Achamian will find that he mostly agrees.
Question: Will Cnaiur return at the end of the world to save us all?

News/Announcements / Re: Welcome to the Second Apocalypse
« on: April 18, 2013, 02:11:06 pm »
Glad to see the Boards back in a functional, albeit mostly contentless, state. Thanks for all the hard work Madness.

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